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Old 26th December 2016, 15:10   #41741  |  Link
Oguignant
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
If the last two controls (color/tint) are still active when inputting RGB, this is very likely, but as I posted initially and as discussed with Nevairiel, it doesn't mean that RGB output isn't the better option for MadVR. It likely is (as long as it doesn't cause levels issues with other software). I only wanted to make it clear that outputting RGB to a TV/projector usually results in just as many colorspace conversions as outputting YCB, as you have one less on the PC side but one more on the TV side.

RGB out is definitely better for a PC monitor, and most likely for a TV/Projector as well. Some other factors (like levels issues with other software) might however lead you to use YCB.

If you only use MPC-BE (or HC or similar)/LAV/MadVR, stick to RGB out.
If the controls are active. Using rgb or ycb I do not see differences in colors, I will leave rgb as you say.

In calibration, what is the difference between pure power curve and bt.709/601 curve?
Which should I choose? My tv supports bt.709, dci p3 and bt.2020. gamma 1.9, 2.2, 2.4 and bt.1886. I calibrate the tv using gamma 2.2
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Old 26th December 2016, 21:36   #41742  |  Link
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Check out the link in my signature, and please let me know if my descriptions for gamma curves don't make sense.
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Old 26th December 2016, 21:44   #41743  |  Link
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Check out the link in my signature, and please let me know if my descriptions for gamma curves don't make sense.
disable calibration controls for this display: The display is assumed to have a BT.709 gamut with a pure power gamma of 2.2 (probably).
this display is already calibrated: [BT.709, pure power curve, 2.20] This sets the current display characteristics. This affects the conversions used by madVR when playing video with a different gamut or using the 'enable gamma processing' option in 'color & gamma'.

Before asking a question, I first look at that page. If I am not clear, I ask the forum. Maybe when using a TV oled it is better to use X gamma curve.
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Last edited by Oguignant; 26th December 2016 at 22:07.
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Old 26th December 2016, 21:58   #41744  |  Link
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BTW I recently updated to the latest version of PotP and when I seek several times in a row(even in windowed mode) I get this box showing up for a split second.
^ and that seems all solved with PotP 1.6.63856, apparently the company owning PotP has changed so maybe new coders had a hard time ironing things out or something. My custom D3D skin also looked funny sometimes and it's all good again as far as I can tell

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Originally Posted by Oguignant View Post
In this review I read that it is RGBA ... http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/ef9500
Hey thanks for the link, I thought those old OLED's selling for a grand would make stunning deals but apparently new ones cost twice more for a good reason huh, outrageous DSE at bay.

Last edited by leeperry; 26th December 2016 at 22:01.
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Old 26th December 2016, 22:17   #41745  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Oguignant View Post
disable calibration controls for this display: The display is assumed to have a BT.709 gamut with a pure power gamma of 2.2 (probably).
this display is already calibrated: [BT.709, pure power curve, 2.20] This sets the current display characteristics. This affects the conversions used by madVR when playing video with a different gamut or using the 'enable gamma processing' option in 'color & gamma'.

Before asking a question, I first look at that page. If I am not clear, I ask the forum. Maybe when using a TV oled it is better to use X gamma curve.
I was thinking of these:
Quote:
pure power curve: [Default] use the standard pure power gamma function
BT.709/601 curve: Use the inverse of a meant for camera gamma function. It has a linear section near black so shadows lighten faster as you move away from black. This can be helpful if your display has crushed shadows.
2.20, 2.40, etc.: [2.20] changes the display's gamma, based on the display's settings in 'calibration', to this target gamma. Lower brightens mid range values which can be nice in a brightly lit room. Higher darkens mid range values which might look better in a darker room.
BT.2020 will be basically pure power 2.4 gamma on an OLED so if you are in a dark room that is what I would recommend, 2.2 for a normally lit room.
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Old 26th December 2016, 22:29   #41746  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I was thinking of these:


BT.2020 will be basically pure power 2.4 gamma on an OLED so if you are in a dark room that is what I would recommend, 2.2 for a normally lit room.
What do you mean, calibration or color & gamma? to set to pure power curve 2.20
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Old 26th December 2016, 23:20   #41747  |  Link
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Dithering on LG 10 bits tv

I found this note that says:

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.ph...&id=1421919922

LG told us that the new 4K OLED TVs use true 10-bit panels – no dithering – and that the built-in HEVC decoder can process 4K HDR at 10-bit, too.

Does it mean I have to disable dithering in madvr?
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Old 26th December 2016, 23:35   #41748  |  Link
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What do you mean, calibration or color & gamma? to set to pure power curve 2.20
Those are just my descriptions of the various gamma curves, I would not use madVR to change the gamma if you can calibrate your display to the gamma you want.

I use BT.2020 for dark room viewing, on your OLED TV that is probably equivalent to pure power 2.4 gamma. You could calibrate to 2.4 but then have madVR convert to 2.2 when your room is too bright.

Calibration is where you tell madVR what your display is calibrated to and color and gamma is where you can change the output to achieve a different gamma from what your display is calibrated too. If you set this display is already calibrated to pure power 2.2 and then set color and gamma to pure power 2.2 the color and gamma setting doesn't do anything, but if you set color and gamma to pure power 2.4 madVR will darken mid range values to achieve a 2.4 gamma on a display calibrated to 2.2.
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Old 26th December 2016, 23:39   #41749  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Those are just my descriptions of the various gamma curves, I would not use madVR to change the gamma if you can calibrate your display to the gamma you want.

I use BT.2020 for dark room viewing, on your OLED TV that is probably equivalent to pure power 2.4 gamma. You could calibrate to 2.4 but then have madVR convert to 2.2 when your room is too bright.

Calibration is where you tell madVR what your display is calibrated to and color and gamma is where you can change the output to achieve a different gamma from what your display is calibrated too. If you set this display is already calibrated to pure power 2.2 and then set color and gamma to pure power 2.2 the color and gamma setting doesn't do anything, but if you set color and gamma to pure power 2.4 madVR will darken mid range values to achieve a 2.4 gamma on a display calibrated to 2.2.
perfect! Thank you. You are very kind to answer my questions
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Old 26th December 2016, 23:45   #41750  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Oguignant View Post
I found this note that says:

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.ph...&id=1421919922

LG told us that the new 4K OLED TVs use true 10-bit panels – no dithering – and that the built-in HEVC decoder can process 4K HDR at 10-bit, too.

Does it mean I have to disable dithering in madvr?
NO! THERE IS NEVER A REASON TO DISABLE madVR's DITHERING.

That means when you send the display a 10-bit signal it won't display it by dithering on an 8-bit panel.

Example: a pixel value is 513 in 10-bit (edit: 128.25 in 8-bit) so a fake dithering 10-bit panel sets the pixel to 128 (8-bit) 75% of the time and 129 25% of the time.
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Old 26th December 2016, 23:53   #41751  |  Link
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NO! THERE IS NEVER A REASON TO DISABLE madVR's DITHERING.

That means when you send the display a 10-bit signal it won't display it by dithering on an 8-bit panel.

Example: a pixel value is 513 in 10-bit (edit: 128.25 in 8-bit) so a fake dithering 10-bit panel sets the pixel to 128 (8-bit) 75% of the time and 129 25% of the time.
Okay, do not lose your temper! It was just a question
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Old 27th December 2016, 00:00   #41752  |  Link
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Okay, do not lose your temper! It was just a question
Haha, people keep asking if dithering should be disabled even after we repeatedly tell them there is never a reason to disable dithering. Apparently we need to be quite firm.

But I know, it is just a question, and please keep asking them!
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Old 27th December 2016, 00:04   #41753  |  Link
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Haha, people keep asking if dithering should be disabled even after we repeatedly tell them there is never a reason to disable dithering. Apparently we need to be quite firm.

But I know, it is just a question, and please keep asking them!

Jaja I did know. But you can not deny that the information I read from LG raised the question.
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Old 27th December 2016, 00:12   #41754  |  Link
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Could some of you guys please stop quoting entire posts when replying? It's easy to just cut the bits you need. Half the damn feed is quoted stuff nobody is reading. There's more quote in the post than reply half the time.

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Old 27th December 2016, 00:38   #41755  |  Link
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I do try to do that but I am on mobile now and am being a bit lazy.
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Old 27th December 2016, 03:06   #41756  |  Link
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I know that this topic does not belong to this forum, but I ask the same. Does anyone have the color scale (Or whatever their name is) to calibrate the tv to bt.2020? Or some page from where to download it?
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Old 27th December 2016, 04:48   #41757  |  Link
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without a colorimter and the knowhow you can't calibrated what so ever.

if you think there is a screen with real bt 2020 you are missing the knowhow.
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Old 27th December 2016, 05:59   #41758  |  Link
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I know that this topic does not belong to this forum, but I ask the same. Does anyone have the color scale (Or whatever their name is) to calibrate the tv to bt.2020? Or some page from where to download it?
I assume you mean the BT.2020 gamma curve? That cannot be done correctly without a meter either but on an OLED, with their very low black levels, BT.2020 is basically pure power 2.4. BT.2020 is a theoretical color space that would require new (magic?) laser technology to actually implement as a display.

After owning several meters and comparing to test pattern calibration methods I have come to the conclusion that a spectrometer is necessary to actually get a decent calibration. This is especially true with novel or new display technologies. Colorimeters don't work very well with every display having different LED backlights, even OLEDs aren't identical model to model. Test patterns are basically useless, or worse, in my experience, unless the display is completely wrong. Test patterns can only optimize one aspect at a time so you end up making three things worse to improve one aspect a bit.

Your TV is close to the DCI-P3 primaries, so if you want to look for a test pattern for that you might be able to do something good but you could also make it worse then the default factory calibration.
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Old 27th December 2016, 06:25   #41759  |  Link
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I assume you mean the BT.2020 gamma curve? That cannot be done correctly without a meter either but on an OLED, with their very low black levels, BT.2020 is basically pure power 2.4. BT.2020 is a theoretical color space that would require new (magic?) laser technology to actually implement as a display.

Your TV is close to the DCI-P3 primaries, so if you want to look for a test pattern for that you might be able to do something good but you could also make it worse then the default factory calibration.
colors the TV oled can display: Dci-p3 90% and bt.2020 70%

Test pattern I use I expressed wrong. I use the test pattern to see if it is calibrated correctly. A colorimetro or spectrometer is very difficult to obtain in my country, and to buy it would cost a fortune!

So, basically you recommend use factory precalibration and just change gamma 2.4 on tv and bt.2020/pure curve 2.4 in madvr configuration?

Asmodian: Today you have answered all my questions They're going to think you work for me or something. Je thks!
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Old 27th December 2016, 08:00   #41760  |  Link
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So, basically you recommend use factory precalibration and just change gamma 2.4 on tv and bt.2020/pure curve 2.4 in madvr configuration?
Exactly, even gamma test patterns, which work the best, tend to only approximately match meter results. None can tell you with any accuracy how good a calibration is.

Glad to help, and I hope it helps others as well.

Edit: wait, don't set madVR to BT.2020 gamut, you only have 90% of DCI-P3, set DCI-P3 for gamut (or BT.709 with the TV set to standard gamut). 70% of a color space is not enough to consider it supported, even 90% isn't ideal.
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