Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 20th June 2017, 17:34   #44141  |  Link
n3w813
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 80
Hi, I enabled "10 bit (or higher) in MadVR last night since my new Vizio TV supports a 10bit input and I've got some 10bit source materials. I've also set my Nvidia GTX1080 to output yCbCr 4:2:2 with 10bpc. Couple of questions...

1. Is it normal to take 10-15 seconds to switch in and out of fullscreen exclusive mode when using 10bit in Madvr? Also, during the 10-15s switch, the screen is displaying a full screen of snow with varying colors. Switching MadVR back to "8 bit" fixes this issue. Is this how it is or is there some configuration I'm not setting correctly?

2. In the thread by James Freeman regarding 10 bit output, he states that Nvidia should be set to output 8 bpc instead of 10 because of some errors introduced. Is this still the case?

3. Anyhow, is it still in my best interest to use MadVR/TV Levels, Nvidia/RGB 8bpc Full range, and TV/Limited to avoid unnecessary levels conversion? Or is the quality of the conversion in the new Nvidia video cards good enough that one can use the limited YCbCr modes without quality issues?

Thanks
n3w813 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2017, 19:02   #44142  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
1. TV can take ages to switch modes there is nothing madVR can do about that.

2. not sure what you mean.

3. like always a full full range RGB chain is preferable.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2017, 19:44   #44143  |  Link
YxP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by n3w813 View Post
Hi, I enabled "10 bit (or higher) in MadVR last night since my new Vizio TV supports a 10bit input and I've got some 10bit source materials.
Your TV's panel most likely isn't 10bit so personally I wouldn't pay that kind of price for outputting 10bit. Look at the picture, take a screenie /j , compare.

[Cynical edit]

I forgot jokes and sarcasm require /s or /j nowadays so just adding /j to the screenie part.

Last edited by YxP; 20th June 2017 at 20:09.
YxP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2017, 21:41   #44144  |  Link
n3w813
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by YxP View Post
Your TV's panel most likely isn't 10bit so personally I wouldn't pay that kind of price for outputting 10bit. Look at the picture, take a screenie /j , compare.

[Cynical edit]

I forgot jokes and sarcasm require /s or /j nowadays so just adding /j to the screenie part.
Is your entire statement sarcasm or just the screenie part?

I'm certain my Vizio P75-C1 is a 10bit native panel. And what price are you talking about?
n3w813 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2017, 22:01   #44145  |  Link
YxP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 99
Just the screenie If you have native 10bit then that might be ok, but MadVR might still make the benefit almost imperceptible.

[let's edit again edit]

The price you pay if you really have to wait 10-15s. I'm sorry I really should stop editing my posts and/or just maybe not post at all.

Last edited by YxP; 20th June 2017 at 23:08.
YxP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 10:02   #44146  |  Link
Magik Mark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 666
I'm not sure if this has been answered. It seems I can't find it in this thread.

I'm having problem in PERMANENTLY setting the BRIGHTNESS to -15. Once I have changed it to -15 it just won't stick. It resets back to 0 once a new video is played.

Is there a way to permanently set it to -15?
__________________
Asus ProArt Z790 - 13th Gen Intel i9 - RTX 3080 - DDR5 64GB Predator - LG OLED C9 - Yamaha A3030 - Windows 11 x64 - PotPlayerr - Lav - MadVR
Magik Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 10:18   #44147  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Setting it to anything should set it permanently. I've tested it and it's fine here in one of my profiles.
Try resetting to defaults and or creating a profile.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 12:05   #44148  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 447
I'm pretty sure the brightness is a per-video thing. One thing you can do is change the name of the directory containing the video files to include "brightness=-15" (without the quotes).
Ver Greeneyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 12:40   #44149  |  Link
Magik Mark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes View Post
I'm pretty sure the brightness is a per-video thing. One thing you can do is change the name of the directory containing the video files to include "brightness=-15" (without the quotes).
This is exactly what I'm experiencing. EveryTime you play a video you need to change the brightness.

Is there a way to automatically apply this? If you check the brightness setting while playing a video, you would always see "0" regardless if change was made in the setting
__________________
Asus ProArt Z790 - 13th Gen Intel i9 - RTX 3080 - DDR5 64GB Predator - LG OLED C9 - Yamaha A3030 - Windows 11 x64 - PotPlayerr - Lav - MadVR
Magik Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 12:46   #44150  |  Link
mzso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magik Mark View Post
This is exactly what I'm experiencing. EveryTime you play a video you need to change the brightness.

Is there a way to automatically apply this? If you check the brightness setting while playing a video, you would always see "0" regardless if change was made in the setting
You need to configure your display properly. I'm quite sure these settings are for correcting videos' flaws.
mzso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 13:00   #44151  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 447
Yeah, if you have to lower the brightness on every video then you'd probably be better off adjusting your display.

As far as I know the only way to apply the setting every time is to tag individual videos, or the directory containing the files (e.g. in case you have a series of videos that all need the same adjustment). Changing the filenames this way isn't pretty to look at, but it works.
Ver Greeneyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 17:02   #44152  |  Link
iSeries
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 625
I am not sure if this is a MadVR issue or (more likely) an issue with my GPU (Nvidia 950). I'm trying out HEVC UHD demos (hardware decoding) and at specific points the queues just drop to 0 and I get a massive amount of dropped frames. It happens at the same points every time. Increasing queue sizes helped a little, and also pausing for a second and then unpausing can sometimes refill the queues. Could this be a GPU memory issue? (only has 2gb). Or maybe something else? Really not sure what could cause it. 1080p and lower all play perfectly.

Last edited by iSeries; 21st June 2017 at 17:50.
iSeries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 17:53   #44153  |  Link
Snowknight26
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
I am not sure if this is a MadVR issue or (more likely) an issue with my GPU (Nvidia 950). I'm trying out UHD demos and at specific points the queues just drop to 0 and I get a massive amount of dropped frames. It happens at the same points every time. Increasing queue sizes helped a little, and also pausing for a second and then unpausing can sometimes refill the queues. Could this be a GPU memory issue? (only has 2gb). Or maybe something else? Really not sure what could cause it. 1080p and lower all play perfectly.
All the queues drop to 0, not just one of them?

Your GPU most likely can't decode frames fast enough.

Look at the rendering frame times in the OSD (Ctrl+J) and see if the rendering/total processing time is close to or greater than the content's frame duration (24 fps would be 41.6ms).

I have a 950 myself and it can do everything but decode 60fps UHD HEVC and remap HDR to SDR at the same time. Render times shoot up higher than the frame duration.



On a related note, a GT 1030 is not fast enough to decode 24fps UHD HEVC and handle HDR (either passing it directly or remapping it to SDR with a shader). If anyone is considering it, don't bother.
Snowknight26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 18:15   #44154  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 896
ProgDVB deinterlacing problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzso View Post
Why? I already told you deinterlacing is on.
Anyway here it is:
https://abload.de/img/dei-5m2sfb.png
I've installed ProgDVB and tested with the same setup you would like to use: software decoding in LAV but with GPU deinterlacing and madVR.
Here's a screenshot
GPU deinterlacing is definitely working, no combing whatsoever as in your screenshot.
I left madVR at its default settings.

I may be wrong, but could madVR + GPU deinterlacing be too much for your graphics card? Have you tried with EVR just to see if deinterlacing works without madVR? Have you tried lowering madVR processing quality?

EDIT: I see your average processing time is ~23 ms. 50i video deinterlaces to 50 fps, not 25, so it means 20 ms per frame. I think it's likely your GPU has no processing resources left to deinterlace in addition to madVR processing. I know Radeons at some point had a 'feature' that disabled some video processing options if the GPU was maxxed out, I don't know much about NVIDIA GPUs yet but could it be that's what happening?
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 22H2, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters/ReClock/madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400 oc'd, GeForce 1050 Ti 536.40

Last edited by el Filou; 21st June 2017 at 18:27.
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 18:42   #44155  |  Link
iSeries
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowknight26 View Post
All the queues drop to 0, not just one of them?

Your GPU most likely can't decode frames fast enough.

Look at the rendering frame times in the OSD (Ctrl+J) and see if the rendering/total processing time is close to or greater than the content's frame duration (24 fps would be 41.6ms).

I have a 950 myself and it can do everything but decode 60fps UHD HEVC and remap HDR to SDR at the same time. Render times shoot up higher than the frame duration.



On a related note, a GT 1030 is not fast enough to decode 24fps UHD HEVC and handle HDR (either passing it directly or remapping it to SDR with a shader). If anyone is considering it, don't bother.
I'm using a HDR to SDR 3dlut, although the problems still occur when using MadVRs own remapping. Render times are around 25ms. So you can play 24p 2160p HDR content smoothly?

Last edited by iSeries; 21st June 2017 at 18:47.
iSeries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 18:48   #44156  |  Link
Snowknight26
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,430
I can. Does disabling HDR (passthrough HDR) fix it?
Snowknight26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 18:52   #44157  |  Link
mzso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
I've installed ProgDVB and tested with the same setup you would like to use: software decoding in LAV but with GPU deinterlacing and madVR.
Here's a screenshot
GPU deinterlacing is definitely working, no combing whatsoever as in your screenshot.
I left madVR at its default settings.

I may be wrong, but could madVR + GPU deinterlacing be too much for your graphics card? Have you tried with EVR just to see if deinterlacing works without madVR? Have you tried lowering madVR processing quality?

EDIT: I see your average processing time is ~23 ms. 50i video deinterlaces to 50 fps, not 25, so it means 20 ms per frame. I think it's likely your GPU has no processing resources left to deinterlace in addition to madVR processing. I know Radeons at some point had a 'feature' that disabled some video processing options if the GPU was maxxed out, I don't know much about NVIDIA GPUs yet but could it be that's what happening?
Thanks for testing this.

That's not the case. I can do GPU deinterlacing and decoding with LAV and madVR processing without framedrops.
Also I highly doubt that lack of processing power would result in deinterlacing not working at all, it would result in framedrops.

Indeed it would be deinterlaced to 50fps, if deinterlacing would work. (The video shows up as 50fps when deinterlaced with LAV)

(Also you seem to have shared a (mostly) static image which of course won't show combing. Try sports or such)
mzso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 20:52   #44158  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzso View Post
Thanks for testing this.

That's not the case. I can do GPU deinterlacing and decoding with LAV and madVR processing without framedrops.
Also I highly doubt that lack of processing power would result in deinterlacing not working at all, it would result in framedrops.

Indeed it would be deinterlaced to 50fps, if deinterlacing would work. (The video shows up as 50fps when deinterlaced with LAV)

(Also you seem to have shared a (mostly) static image which of course won't show combing. Try sports or such)
It was actually a panning shot of the newsroom, the camera was moving and it didn't show any artefact. Trust me, I've been watching TV on a PC for years, I recognize interlace combing when I see it.

Did you try EVR or EVR custom in ProgDVB just to check if deinterlacing works with it? That could help narrow down the problem.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 22H2, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters/ReClock/madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400 oc'd, GeForce 1050 Ti 536.40
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 21:01   #44159  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
el filou deinterlancing is not working on your screen. the source is most likely PSF
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2017, 21:07   #44160  |  Link
mzso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
It was actually a panning shot of the newsroom, the camera was moving and it didn't show any artefact. Trust me, I've been watching TV on a PC for years, I recognize interlace combing when I see it.

Did you try EVR or EVR custom in ProgDVB just to check if deinterlacing works with it? That could help narrow down the problem.
I tried it before. With EVR deinterlacing works.
mzso is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.