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Old 17th October 2018, 13:05   #53321  |  Link
chros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
You won't have any problems with 1080P or below on a 2GB card.
Sorry, I meant 4k UHD/1080p/720p contents on 4k/2k displays.
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
but i can use more than 3 GB Vram with madVR by using ngu on chroma and luma by leaving the rest in madVR normal.

we are using PC you just recommend 4 gb because that's more common.
Thanks, that's not a good news for me
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Old 17th October 2018, 13:20   #53322  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
create an empty folder called ShowRenderSteps in the madVR folder.

but judging from your OSD limited information it is clearly working with that version.
Yes, it's clearly working, as I said.

https://imgur.com/a/rql9XUw
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Old 17th October 2018, 13:24   #53323  |  Link
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4 shaders ok he change something in your test build.
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Old 17th October 2018, 15:34   #53324  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Is that with copyback? Does using D3D11 native decoding change anything?
Already using D3D11 decoding. Highlight recovery is just really slow. It is not an issue with 24 fps content.
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Old 17th October 2018, 15:43   #53325  |  Link
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No, I want to work with measured nits but I am wandering why MadVR generated BT.2390 curve (as measured) drifts gradually (and significnatly) away from HCFR reference BT.2390 curve and then returns to being spot-on at 70% but then gets clipped at 80-90% stimulus if we know the "formula" is defined in the papers and should be the same in HCFR and MadVR. Is the 80-90% clipping part of the formula to mantain some HDR effect with low peak brightness?

If translation to SDR was the cause, I expect the PQ curve tracking would drift as well but it is not.
There is likely something different about the BT.2390 used by HCFR and the BT.2390 used by madVR. madVR does additional processing, but testing luminance alone should yield a similar curve, I would assume. Your display is tracking PQ values accurately.

The brightness response of BT.2390 is also very different than straight PQ clipping because tone mapping deviates far off the original PQ curve. The SDR gamma curve would have to be contorted a bit to make it look right.

It would be hard to say what would be causing the differences without knowing if there are differences in the tone curves. I would try testing different mastering peaks (lower than 10,000) with target nits values in madVR that are above your display brightness because that's how most would use pixel shader. If I set my display to 175 nits and the target nits to 175 nits, the image is washed out. I don't think that is intended by BT.2390.

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Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
hmm...there is no bar 16, there is a clip with 64-80 bars and there is a clip with C64-C111 gradient (0.0-0.07 nits). In the former I can, with great effort and in pitch black room notice that bars 76-80 are flashing, almost un-noticebly. In the gradient clip I can see the gradient becoming VERY slightly lighter, from left to right, than the bottom black part, so I am guessing there is no crush but also that near black gradation is so barely noticable - don't know if that's a problem and it should be more noticable.
I would doubt you are crushing black given the accuracy of your calibration. The 8-bit bars are represented along the bottom of the 8-bit clipping pattern. They are hard to see, but they are there.

Last edited by Warner306; 17th October 2018 at 15:54.
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Old 17th October 2018, 15:53   #53326  |  Link
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The plot thickens! How come the 100% stimulus HDR pattern is reported as 10000 nits measured/average by MadVR when content metadata says maximum content light level is 1000 nits?
Bad metadata or lack of metadata. The measurement would be more accurate. The metadata is just available to assist with tone mapping.
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Old 17th October 2018, 15:56   #53327  |  Link
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As an HDR -> SDR user on an normal 1080p LG TV, is there anything to be gained by all these new settings and selections ?

Asking for an ignorant friend .
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Old 17th October 2018, 15:57   #53328  |  Link
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I would check measure each frame and enable highlight recovery. You would gain by using both settings.
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Old 17th October 2018, 16:55   #53329  |  Link
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NGU medium vs NGU high is it really worth it? NGU high gives me 65% GPU load and rendering times ~ 22 ms. GTX 1050 ti.
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Old 17th October 2018, 17:18   #53330  |  Link
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On my 6gb 1060 I stick with medium. It's very subjective but most people aren't going to see a HUGE difference between medium and high and on lower end equipment where performance matters more it's certainly not worth it IMO.
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Old 17th October 2018, 17:21   #53331  |  Link
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@SamuriHL, just to get a speed impression, with your 1060, I suppose you can do the following with ease:

1) "NGU High" Luma upscaling with 1080 -> 4K at 60fps? (Chroma set to "normal").
2) Tone mapping including highlight recovery and measurements at 4K 60fps?

Correct? Thanks!
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Old 17th October 2018, 17:30   #53332  |  Link
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On my 6gb 1060 I stick with medium. It's very subjective but most people aren't going to see a HUGE difference between medium and high and on lower end equipment where performance matters more it's certainly not worth it IMO.
Good point.
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Old 17th October 2018, 17:37   #53333  |  Link
mytbyte
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Bad metadata or lack of metadata. The measurement would be more accurate. The metadata is just available to assist with tone mapping.
Well, I took the HDR clipping pattern that is also marked as 1000 nits max and when I set peak brightness in MadVR to 10000 nits, I get visible flashing bars all the way accross so there IS data all the way up to 10000 nits in the file and madVR detects that, apparently.

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I would doubt you are crushing black given the accuracy of your calibration.
Just measured that my near black tracking is rising slower than the BT.2390 reference (up to 8% stimulus), so it is darker than it should be, but data is there.

Last edited by mytbyte; 17th October 2018 at 17:46.
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Old 17th October 2018, 18:13   #53334  |  Link
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@SamuriHL, just to get a speed impression, with your 1060, I suppose you can do the following with ease:

1) "NGU High" Luma upscaling with 1080 -> 4K at 60fps? (Chroma set to "normal").
2) Tone mapping including highlight recovery and measurements at 4K 60fps?

Correct? Thanks!
1) Rendering is hanging out around 27ms or lower average with NGU Sharp HIGH luma upscaling 1080 -> 4k 60. Chroma set to normal.

2) Rendering is about 35ms or so at 4k 60 with tone mapping highlight recovery measurements and 65% desat.

Of note I am using D3D11 decoding not doing any copy back.

P.S. All trade quality options are disabled.
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Old 17th October 2018, 18:25   #53335  |  Link
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Out of curiosity what is the state of madVR with an AMD Vega solution for 4K HDR material? I am looking to replace my HTPC with a Hades Canyon NUC (8809G) and want to understand what issues I might run into. I saw a post way back about madVR being unable to autoswitch HDR mode in Windows with AMD cards. Has this changed?

I am presently using a GTX960/Pentium G4600 based machine now and want to get a similar experience... just smaller.

Edit: I see that AMD now has a private HDR API that madVR will utilize. That answers that, but is there anything else that might be an issue?

Last edited by Balthazar2k4; 17th October 2018 at 20:08.
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Old 17th October 2018, 20:59   #53336  |  Link
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Hi Madshi,

I'm sorry to be late for your request of feedback about NNEDI3, like many others I don't update madVR very often (I'm still using 0.92.2 now), neither read this thread, but I think there was a good reason to keep it. Maybe nobody else noticed, but it is/was the only doubling algorithm capable of independent width or height doubling. I encode my BD3Ds to 1920 x 2160 OU for viewing on my FPR UHD TV. This way there is no need to upscale the height, the TV just take the available lines and reorder them in a line alternative scheme. When I play these videos in fullscreen with madVR using NNEDI3 for doubling, I can see in the OSD that after chroma upscaling, luma x (or the whole image x depending on settings for chroma doubling) is upscaled with NNEDI and image y is left untouched. But if I choose super-xbr or NGU for doubling, I can see that after chroma upscaling, both image x and image y are upscaled and then image y is downscaled with the algorithm chosed.
I understand that you had reasons to remove NNEDI3 so I'm not going to ask for it back, but maybe this feature could be added to NGU. Anyway I suspect that image y doubling to 4320 and then downscaling back to 2160 should not mean a significant quality loss, but given that it is not necessary in this situation, maybe I should just forget about doubling and use one of the other upscaling algorithms.

Also, I don't understand if the new option "tone map HDR using external 3DLUT" is just for processing HDR, or for both processing HDR and converting HDR to SDR.

Last edited by Alexkral; 18th October 2018 at 05:54.
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Old 17th October 2018, 21:45   #53337  |  Link
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I can set RGB Full 12 bpc in 1809 and 416.34. I simply change the refresh rate first, setting it to RGB Full 8 bpc 340x2160p23, and then after I am in 23 Hz I can set 12 bpc, this lives through reboots and similar without issue. However, this is not with a custom 23 Hz mode, with a custom mode I simply cannot use >8 bit at all.
I just updated to Windows 1809 and 416.34 and it still will not switch to 12bpc. Incredibly frustrating.
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Old 17th October 2018, 22:31   #53338  |  Link
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On my my 1050 Ti on 1080 display I have to check 'compromise on mapping accuracy' for 60p HDR content. With 24p it's fine.
Not a big deal for me as most HDR content besides demos still is 24p movies at the moment.
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Old 18th October 2018, 12:02   #53339  |  Link
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HDR looks terrible with that enabled.. Compromise on anything else..
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Old 18th October 2018, 16:18   #53340  |  Link
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On my my 1050 Ti on 1080 display I have to check 'compromise on mapping accuracy' for 60p HDR content. With 24p it's fine.
Not a big deal for me as most HDR content besides demos still is 24p movies at the moment.
If you create a profile for 4K60 with scale chroma separately checked under trade quality for performance, you should be able to enable everything again, save highlight recovery.

Last edited by Warner306; 18th October 2018 at 17:54.
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