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Old 23rd March 2018, 08:08   #49761  |  Link
x7007
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Which HDR mode will I want .

NV HDR or OS HDR ? does it matter? NV HDR happens when it auto detect and enable TV HDR automatically when I run the movie with Potplayer + MadVR . OS HDR happens when I open the movie with HDR Enabled in the windows display settings.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 11:54   #49762  |  Link
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OLED graduation has been discussed to death on AV forums, its not as simple as the panel itself. Early panels had issues where poorly compressed material would create quantisation errors and blocky noise in dark areas but a movie with no compression artifacts looks perfect in dark areas. Later panels dealt with this with what we assumed to be better dithering algorithms but most issues on OLED are caused by poor source material, push great in, get great out, push crap in ..... I dont notice any banding at all on my OLED, even at near black, unless its on the source and mine is gen one. There were some differences in the panels, the later 2015 models tended to be better and a few lucky people like me got a really good example, although I had to send two back with terrible near black vertical banding which is the real Achilles heal of OLED. It can still be a bit of a panel lottery but its a lot better than it was, i'd still buy my current OLED over any LCD, FALD or otherwise as i'm a dark room viewer and OLED cant be beaten in this field, once you go OLED there is no going back unfortunately
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Old 23rd March 2018, 12:07   #49763  |  Link
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Yeah there ain't no beating that perception of depth and clarity that OLED brings. Every day I see the C7, A1 and EZ950 and Sammy's Q8 while good, don't compare. I'll never buy an LCD TV :P
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Old 23rd March 2018, 12:18   #49764  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post

It would be useful to have a user with an AMD card and the same display. Then you could determine if its the extra 2-bits that is causing the problem.
THIS.

Exactly what I've done - exchanged nvidia (12b) for AMD (10b) on my 2015 flagship Samsung JS9505 (FALD). Banding much reduced.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 12:36   #49765  |  Link
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was there still banding?
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Old 23rd March 2018, 13:44   #49766  |  Link
bran
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was there still banding?
Some, but not nearly to the same extent. And it's hard to rule out the material as well. Tested using Planet Earth II, which some reviewers have noticed banding in the skies as well.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 14:06   #49767  |  Link
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I'd suggest using test patterns and not movies for testing stuff like banding. With movies you never know if the source is already bad.
This site has a ton of HDR10 test patterns and they're free.

https://yadi.sk/d/RPrX2C7l3HEjPq
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Old 23rd March 2018, 15:25   #49768  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by bran View Post
Some, but not nearly to the same extent. And it's hard to rule out the material as well. Tested using Planet Earth II, which some reviewers have noticed banding in the skies as well.
So what happens if you choose 8-bits? Does the banding get even better? Some banding sounds strange. The processing still isn't doing its job.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 15:26   #49769  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
Which HDR mode will I want .

NV HDR or OS HDR ? does it matter? NV HDR happens when it auto detect and enable TV HDR automatically when I run the movie with Potplayer + MadVR . OS HDR happens when I open the movie with HDR Enabled in the windows display settings.
I would go with the Nvidia HDR. Otherwise, you will be switching the OS switch every time you watch an HDR video.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 16:13   #49770  |  Link
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These screenshots are taken in MPC-HC by Alt-I: with EVR, with madVR. No noticable differences.
These screenshots are taken by PrtScr: with EVR, with madVR. It may be noticed that EVR's one has more grain (see the sleeve). Why?

(Tinypic changes picture size, nothing can be done about that. Here are the original images).
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Old 23rd March 2018, 16:14   #49771  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I would go with the Nvidia HDR. Otherwise, you will be switching the OS switch every time you watch an HDR video.
That's what I always thought....

The Martian (2015) 4k HDR. The scene from 00:10.10 looks extremely different when played with Madvr passthrough with metadata, vs madvr passthrough without metadata and nvcp set to use default color settings and the OS HDR toggle on.

Does any else have this film and test as above?

K

Win10 (latest fast ring) and GTX 1080ti (latest driver)

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 23rd March 2018 at 16:17.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 16:49   #49772  |  Link
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when you say different what are we talking about here exactly?, darker, lighter, washed out, over saturated, grainy, banding?
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Old 23rd March 2018, 16:58   #49773  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
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when you say different what are we talking about here exactly?, darker, lighter, washed out, over saturated, grainy, banding?
Colour reproduction (more vibrant with correct colour tones) sharpness, clarity/image depth and the absence of aliasing = using nvcp default colour with OS HDR toggle as per my previous post.

In fact, I've just tried about 30 or so HDR movies and the differences I'm seeing have me scratching my head

K

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 23rd March 2018 at 17:08.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 17:15   #49774  |  Link
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I'm running on an AMD 460 so cant test i'm afraid but when I play HDR movies using the windows FILMS a& TV app with the windows HDR toggle on they look very similar to the output of MADVR suggesting an NVIDA HDR issue to me.

Not sure why you 'd want to run HDR that way though, but I know there have been some issues getting HDR to work properly with some NVIDIA driver versions, AMD has been working fine with HDR for a long while now but did have some issues with earlier RX 4XXX drivers if memory serves.

AMD is pretty much play and go at the minute for HDR, no issues at all. I'd like to move to the more powerful NVIDIA cards myself but there are just too many issues, just dont think NVIDIA put the time in to HTPC playback AMD does.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 17:34   #49775  |  Link
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HDR has been working well for me, with Nvidia, since madVR implemented the Nvidia API. I created a 3DLUT with DisplayCal and calibrated and profiled with Calman, it was a bit shocking how bad the gamut coverage is in HDR mode.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 18:03   #49776  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by oldpainlesskodi View Post
That's what I always thought....

The Martian (2015) 4k HDR. The scene from 00:10.10 looks extremely different when played with Madvr passthrough with metadata, vs madvr passthrough without metadata and nvcp set to use default color settings and the OS HDR toggle on.

Does any else have this film and test as above?

K

Win10 (latest fast ring) and GTX 1080ti (latest driver)
It is not clear what you are comparing here...

With OS HDR on and madVR set to passthrough, the Windows method should be used. If select "send metadata," is the Nvidia API activated? Or is this another Windows method: full passthrough vs. partial passthrough? Doesn't the madVR OSD indicate this?

It would have to be determined what each setting is doing. I think the OS HDR switch has to be off for the Nvidia API to work. Most people are using the Nvidia API and checking send metadata, so this hasn't been brought up as an issue.

It has been stated that the Windows OS HDR is capable of producing a different image, but not how it does this.

Last edited by Warner306; 23rd March 2018 at 18:30.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 18:08   #49777  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
HDR has been working well for me, with Nvidia, since madVR implemented the Nvidia API. I created a 3DLUT with DisplayCal and calibrated and profiled with Calman, it was a bit shocking how bad the gamut coverage is in HDR mode.
Gamut coverage is far less important for color reproduction that saturation tracking and colour volume, so you want to check these too (Calman has two good layouts to measure colour volume and a few good layouts to measure linearity).

A display with "only" 90% gamut coverage can produce a more accurate picture than a display with 100% gamut coverage if the former has a better linearity and a higher color volume.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 19:21   #49778  |  Link
j82k
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Originally Posted by oldpainlesskodi View Post
That's what I always thought....

The Martian (2015) 4k HDR. The scene from 00:10.10 looks extremely different when played with Madvr passthrough with metadata, vs madvr passthrough without metadata and nvcp set to use default color settings and the OS HDR toggle on.

Does any else have this film and test as above?

K

Win10 (latest fast ring) and GTX 1080ti (latest driver)
I just tried this and I can't really see a difference between NV HDR and OS HDR, so it can't be extremely different.
I also tried some HDR clipping test pattern and they also looked identical between NV and OS HDR.

One thing I really like about OS HDR though is that the windows interface isn't blindingly bright.

Also on latest win10, latest nvidia drivers.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 20:43   #49779  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
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Originally Posted by j82k View Post
I just tried this and I can't really see a difference between NV HDR and OS HDR, so it can't be extremely different.
I also tried some HDR clipping test pattern and they also looked identical between NV and OS HDR.

One thing I really like about OS HDR though is that the windows interface isn't blindingly bright.

Also on latest win10, latest nvidia drivers.
Odd, must be my set up then if you tried the Martian movie - With NV i see oversatuarted colours, whilst not showing all the gradients, and some ringing artifacts on the small stones on the martian land as it zooms in, but with the OS HDR I get done of those issues, and the image is far clearer/vibrant.

K

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 23rd March 2018 at 20:45.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 21:46   #49780  |  Link
Asmodian
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Gamut coverage is far less important for color reproduction that saturation tracking and colour volume, so you want to check these too (Calman has two good layouts to measure colour volume and a few good layouts to measure linearity).

A display with "only" 90% gamut coverage can produce a more accurate picture than a display with 100% gamut coverage if the former has a better linearity and a higher color volume.
By gamut I meant color volume. The 2D gamut, or the primaries measured at 100% brightness, is not really the gamut as they are defined in the specs, even though we often look at them like that. Linearity is less important when using a 3DLUT.

It was the Calman reports that were depressing, the primaries are quite good so at a quick glance the coverage looks great but as soon as you measure the full 3D space it doesn't look so good. It is fine for viewing, HDR content looks great, but it is a strong reminder that the HDR specs are well outside what current consumer displays can do.
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