madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[el Filou]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

Please don't confuse people with calling borderless = windowed, they are not necessarily treated the same by DWM.

Did you mean 'exclusive' instead of 'borderless'? "borderless" means 'borderless fullscreen windowed' so it's windowed mode.

Edit: or did you mean 'borderless fullscreen windowed' is treated differently by DWM than 'bordered window windowed' ?

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by el Filou

Edit: or did you mean 'borderless fullscreen windowed' is treated differently by DWM than 'bordered window windowed' ?

That's what I meant.
To make confusion perfect: Without "fullscreen optimizations" disabled in Windows 10 CU2 compatibility options, there probably even isn't any difference between borderless fullscreen windowed and fullscreen exclusive anymore.

[mclingo]

see attachments of my recent results with pre creators update 1703 and latest MADVR 09209.

Here are my conclusions, please note these are only for users with AMD GFX cards who want to passthru HDR to a HDR capable TV. Some we already know, if not all but this was done just to get straight in my mind exactly what was and wasnt working and in what combination.

conclusions:

(A) - MVC 3D wil not working with FULL SCREEN EXCLUSIVE MODE (FSE) on.

(B) - Minimum MADVR rendering requirements for perfect HDR playback are:

1. copyback hardware decoding (didnt try native)

2. FSE off.

3. use Direct 3D for presentation on (required to trigger HDR mode
on HDR capable TV)

4. use a seperate device for presentation.

(C) - dont use direct 3d presentation and FSE together for anything but SDR 2D movies or you'll likely get a black screen and an unresponsive PC which you'll have to powercycle.

(D) - There are no combination of settings that allow you to have both HDR passthrough and MVC 3D working together.


question (i) is there any other way to enable MVC 3D without FSE, or any way to enable auto HDR mode enabling without use of Direct 3D presentation?

question (ii) if the fall creators update breaks FSE why does it seem to be broken here as well?

question (iii) - could a workaround be put in place in MADVR where when MVC 3D is triggered direct 3D is turned off, or it might be easier the other way around, when HDR movies are played FSE is temporarily disabled and brought back when the movies is stopped?


edit - hmm, not sure about these results now, every time I drop into MVC 3D now my PC crashes, cant help feeling all these problems are down to this shite RX550 card and Windows 10 drivers, had some issues with my old RX480 but nothing like this.

[Soulnight]

Originally Posted by Soulnight

Thanks guys.
I guess Il will try to convince myself with doing the hardware decoding with my RX560 which has only 55% load by 4K Interpolation. And see if I get any benefit for the GTX1080TI and rendering time in Madvr.

It seems smarter that way to me.

Currently I am doing:
1) Hardare HEVC decoding: GTX1080TI
2) FI 4K24p-->60p: AMD RX560 with bluesky FRC
3) Rendering madvr: GTX1080TI

Maybe if Decoding speaks directly to the Fi on the same card, it would be better.

And so... it does help to use an other GPU to do the HEVC hardware decoding.
At least it helps in my case to use the same GPU to do the HEVC decoding + frame interpolation, before it goes to next graphics card for madvr rendering.

Test:
- source: 4K HDR 4:2:0 10bits 24p @63Mb/s bitrate
- Hdr to SDR DCI-p3 with dynamic compression of highlights
-Chroma upscaling: Bicubic75
- Debanding high
- Display: Epson EH-LS10000 (59p 4:2:0 8bits)

Setup 1:
1) Hardware HEVC decoding DX11: GTX1080TI
2) FI 4K24p-->59p: AMD RX560 with bluesky FRC
3) Rendering madvr: GTX1080TI

-->11.5ms avg renderin time, 15.5 ms max rendering time

Setup 2:
1) Hardware HEVC decoding DX11: AMD RX560
2) FI 4K24p-->59p: AMD RX560 with bluesky FRC
3) Rendering madvr: GTX1080TI

-->9.5ms avg Rendering Time, 11.5ms max rendering time

That's a 20% speed increase!
Very happy. :-)

[steakhutzeee]

Hi

In madvr dithering options i use Error Diffusion - option 1.

As i can see there are dithering options in lav video too, i can choose between Ordered and Random. What should i pick, there is difference?

[Gopa]

Originally Posted by steakhutzeee

Hi

In madvr dithering options i use Error Diffusion - option 1.

As i can see there are dithering options in lav video too, i can choose between Ordered and Random. What should i pick, there is difference?

I have also, wondered, whether or not, lav dither settings, even matter? I just leave it as it is. I use "ordered", in madVR, with nothing else checked, because it is a lot faster, than option 1 or 2, without any noticeable difference for my anime (maybe even better). Sometimes, I will use option 2, with, change dither for every frame, for non-anime, if I have extra rendertime. I never use option 1, because it seems to increase noise, too much. I experimented, using colored noise, checked & did not care for it.

[steakhutzeee]

Originally Posted by Gopa

I have also, wondered, whether or not, lav dither settings, even matter? I just leave it as it is. I use "ordered", in madVR, with nothing else checked, because it is a lot faster, than option 1 or 2, without any noticeable difference for my anime (maybe even better). Sometimes, I will use option 2, with, change dither for every frame, for non-anime, if I have extra rendertime. I never use option 1, because it seems to increase noise, too much. I experimented, using colored noise, checked & did not care for it.

So you use Random Dithering in lav?

Don't know, you say option 2 is better of option 1? and that ordered is better than the two? Why? I'm not an expert. I watch only movies.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by Gopa

I have also, wondered, whether or not, lav dither settings, even matter?

If you use madVR and didn't mess with any other LAV settings you shouldn't mess with (like disabling any of the output formats in LAV), then they don't matter, since madVR supports high-bitdepth input formats.

[Gopa]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

If you use madVR and didn't mess with any other LAV settings you shouldn't mess with (like disabling any of the output formats in LAV), then they don't matter, since madVR supports high-bitdepth input formats.

Thank you. I thought this was true. Does it matter if I choose PC (255) vs untouched (input)? I usually, go with untouched, just in case.

[steakhutzeee]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

If you use madVR and didn't mess with any other LAV settings you shouldn't mess with (like disabling any of the output formats in LAV), then they don't matter, since madVR supports high-bitdepth input formats.

What about this? Can you explain more clearly? Thanks

Originally Posted by Gopa

2 is slower than 1 & 1 is slower than ordered. For regular movies, I usually, go with 2 + change every frame & for anime, ordered, without, change every frame. 1 & 2 are a lot slower than ordered & I usually, can see little, or no difference. You might like colored noise. I usually, do not. Ordered, pretty much works, well, for everything. You have to try them & look very closely, to see the differences. Different sources, will look a little better, or worse, so you have to try them all, to see what you like, or just go with ordered. Not a very important setting for me. I would be okay if ordered, was always checked, because it uses less GPU & I cannot see much difference (usually).

Why you prefer option 2 for movies?

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by steakhutzeee

What about this? Can you explain more clearly? Thanks

The dithering and range options in LAV are only used when converting color formats. Since madVR supports all the color formats LAV never needs to convert them so those settings never do anything.

[70MM]

The anti ringing filter is in three places, under Image Inhancements, Artifact removal, and Upscaling Refinement.

If one is upscaling ripped BDs and other material to 4K through madvr and one wants to use anti ring which I supose most would.... which is the best of the three areas to turn on anti ringing if you are using some settings from all thre areas? At present I have it ticked in all three places, is that overdo, or does it create artifacts with all three on?

Also who uses Luma Sharpen and what is it actually used for?.... is it a good thing to use or does it add artifacts?

[huhn]

The anti ringing filter is in three places, under Image Inhancements, Artifact removal, and Upscaling Refinement.

it'S not the same anti ringing filter. a lot of scaler in image upscaling have anti ringing too.
so it is veery simple the anti ringing under image upscale lowers the ringing >created< by lanczos as an example. the anti ringing filter under artifact removal removes ringing from the source image and the anti rigning under upscaling refinement is removing ringing from the upscale refining filters.

If one is upscaling ripped BDs and other material to 4K through madvr and one wants to use anti ring which I supose most would.... which is the best of the three areas to turn on anti ringing if you are using some settings from all thre areas? At present I have it ticked in all three places, is that overdo, or does it create artifacts with all three on?

depends on the source if it has notable ringing in the source can use the anti ringing artifact removel.
if you use image refinement you may use anti ringing there too. so you see it depends.

you should ask your eyes. do you see a difference?

Also who uses Luma Sharpen and what is it actually used for?.... is it a good thing to use or does it add artifacts?

if you want to sharpen the image this is another option madVR gives. it very fast and can be used on nearly every GPU out there. and if the name isn't for fun there it is sharpening the luma channel.
is it artifact free? well it is changing the image so no it's is not artifact free.

[Gopa]

Originally Posted by steakhutzeee

Why you prefer option 2 for movies?

Option 1: mid noise level/no dither pattern
Option 2: low noise level/mild dither pattern

To me, for movies, option 2, usually, looks a little better, than option 1 & ordered, usually, looks as good, if not better, than option 1. Ordered, is very fast. Option 1 & 2, are slower. I usually, just go with ordered, unless the image, is very poor quality. You have to decide, with your eyes, as we all have different eyes!

[Ver Greeneyes]

Another Windows 10 cumulative update came out, includes this note: Addressed a performance regression when users run full-screen Microsoft DirectX 9 games and applications.

[mclingo]

spent today doing a full clean install right up to DX fix mention above, I have a reasonable usable creators fall update system now.

I'm using KODI DS with MADVR v0.92.7, 8 and 9 still problematic for me but will test any new versions that come our way.

I have 3D working and also HDR passthru to my OLED TV, i've also managed to get reclock working properly now so i'm back to ZERO frame drops.

There is a caveat though, if you use FSE in KODI DS is makes HDR playback choppy, if you turn it off its ok even if I leave it turned on in MADVR itself.

So I'll leave FSE off in KODI DS and just use if for 3D MVC.

[ultrahd_hdr]

Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes

Another Windows 10 cumulative update came out, includes this note: Addressed a performance regression when users run full-screen Microsoft DirectX 9 games and applications.

tried the latest build(16299),still full screen issue + nvidia newer drivers with HDR persist.
rolled back to previous build.

[steakhutzeee]

Originally Posted by Gopa

Option 1: mid noise level/no dither pattern
Option 2: low noise level/mild dither pattern

To me, for movies, option 2, usually, looks a little better, than option 1 & ordered, usually, looks as good, if not better, than option 1. Ordered, is very fast. Option 1 & especially, option 2, are very slow. I usually, just go with ordered, unless the image, is very poor quality. You have to decide, with your eyes, as we all have different eyes!

When you say 'fast', what do you mean exactly?

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by steakhutzeee

When you say 'fast', what do you mean exactly?

Fast or slow is talking about the GPU Power required or rendering times.

However, I don't think ED1 and ED2 are different speeds? Ordered is very fast but random is a little faster still.

[steakhutzeee]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Fast or slow is talking about the GPU Power required or rendering times.

However, I don't think ED1 and ED2 are different speeds? Ordered is very fast but random is a little faster still.

You talking about lav right? I was talking about madvr. I'm making confusion

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