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14th April 2017, 07:51 | #43321 | Link |
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I totally agree with you, but I was comparing chroma doubling, not chroma upscaling.
For chroma upscaling, "NGU AA high" is of course better than Jinc. That is why I would like to compare them for chroma doubling, and also not being limited to the "low" version of NGU for chroma doubling when using NGU high for luma doubling Another comparison between the two algos I am stuck with for chroma doubling : http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/206580 Obviously, NGU AA could do wonderful here, and maybe NGU Standard too. @madshi is there any chance to have a test version with more options for chroma doubling (Jinc AR, NGU AA, NGU Standard, etc.) or in the next version(s) ? With your sample ( http://madshi.net/chromaTestImage.y4m ), I also find Bicubic60 AR to be more pleasing to look at and more accurate (even if less sharp) : http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/206596 Last edited by Neo-XP; 14th April 2017 at 12:27. |
14th April 2017, 09:27 | #43322 | Link | ||
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14th April 2017, 14:38 | #43324 | Link |
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You need to set your TV into HDR mode as well.
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14th April 2017, 16:51 | #43325 | Link |
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I get the ''an hdr video is playing'' message from TV (even without hdr source) but that's all.Also ''hdr mode''(read somewhere that it's ''fake'') gets disabled when in pc mode.I guess I'll have to wait.Thank you both though.
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14th April 2017, 20:43 | #43326 | Link |
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Madvr doesnt do a good job with the tonemapping to non HDR ready tvs.
it still clips highlights. dark scenes are way to dark with HDR material also. thats why i asked before about a possible PQ gamma adjuster in madvr still havnt got an answer to the fucking question You may better get the Samsung K8500 UHD player connect an USB Harddrive to it and then you can play all kinds of HDR material with better result. adjusting details near black is done with the Brightness control on the player details near white is done with the Contrast setting. Samsung K8500 sends out everything even to an non hdr redy tv. it doesnt convert anything. bt2020 colors PQ gamma and 10bit video. you get it all adjust brightnes and contrast on the players picture mode/user menu and you will have a really amazing HDR image even on an non hdr ready tv. how good depends on how wide the tvs native colorgamut is and how bright it gets and also how good the 10bit performance is. Last edited by Patrik G; 14th April 2017 at 20:53. |
14th April 2017, 23:09 | #43328 | Link |
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I have HDR enabled on the creators update and it does indeed trigger HDR mode on my LG OLED TV. But when I play any HDR videos they are washed out and dark. Is there no way to get the video to output at the correct levels?
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14th April 2017, 23:28 | #43329 | Link |
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For those mentioning problems with ReClock and the creators update a couple pages back, it's a problem with FSE. Disable that for the moment and clear the clock timings database in ReClock settings.
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14th April 2017, 23:32 | #43330 | Link | |
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I don't know why several people come here expecting it to "just work" without updates to madVR that would add support for this. This is not how software works. New OS features need support in applications before they actually function. The one thing that *might* work is to NOT use the Windows HDR mode and instead leave Windows in default output mode, and instead toggle your TV into HDR mode manually (assuming madVR is set to HDR pass-through mode), if the TV is smart enough (or dumb enough, depends on perspective, I guess), it might interpret the image as HDR data.
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15th April 2017, 00:18 | #43331 | Link | ||||||||||||||
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Might make sense to at least get a TV which does HDR10 and HLG. Glad to hear that! Quote:
Chroma subsampling (4:2:2, 4:2:0) is always factor 2x. So what purpose would NGU chroma quadrupling have? Or do you mean when we start with 4:4:4, you want both luma and chroma to be directly quadrupled? That's already done today. Quote:
NGU AA is as sharp as it's ever going to be, I believe. Of course it's possible to post-sharpen it, but I don't think doing that will be part of the algorithm. I mean it might be possible to include artificial sharpening as part of the algo, but it probably wouldn't look any better than doing NGU AA first, and then apply post-sharpening. Quote:
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That's incorrect. madVR doesn't clip anything, unless you modify the settings in the madVR HDR page. That's incorrect. If you configured the madVR "this display's peak nits" value correctly, then madVR shows dark scenes *EXACTLY* like a true 10.000 nits display would show dark scenes. Quote:
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Sorry, but I don't give ETAs. Quote:
Sorry, but no. Doing test versions like that costs serious development time, and I have so many other things to do, which are likely to bring higher quality gains than those 0.1% improvements we might get from using Jinc AR instead of Bicubic60 for chroma doubling. If I had unlimited development time, such a test version might make sense. But if I have to decide between a) implementing a nice new feature/algo, or b) making a test version which might bring 0.1% quality improvement only 1 user is asking for, I'm going with a). |
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15th April 2017, 00:49 | #43332 | Link | ||
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Do you have to develop these NGU variants specifically for chroma doubling or could you just add them ? Last edited by Neo-XP; 15th April 2017 at 10:41. |
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15th April 2017, 04:22 | #43333 | Link | |
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15th April 2017, 08:49 | #43334 | Link | |
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A bit more info:When a JVC projector receives the HDR metadata-flag, it locks the projector into an "HDR"-mode that JVC (for some strange reason) has disabled the automatic iris off, which leads to much poorer black levels in low-APL scenes. The only solution so far has been to buy the HDFury Linker (199$) that has a feature to strip HDR-metadata. Hence, the projector still receives HDR but isn't locked into the "HDR"mode, which brings back the dynamic iris. This has a huge impact on black levels, and is currently the go-to solution for watching HDR on these projectors. It would be awesome if MadVR could do this so that we can get the same results without having to involve the HDFury Linker. A simple hack would be welcome |
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15th April 2017, 10:17 | #43335 | Link | |||
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Actually, there will be a new product available pretty soon, making most of the madVR algos available to avi/vapoursynth users. There will be a "pro" version of this new product and a free version. The free version will have some limitions, which will hopefully not be too dramatic, but motivate real "pro" users/companies to buy the pro version. This is all I can say about this for now. More details to be announced later. |
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15th April 2017, 10:30 | #43336 | Link | |
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Chroma > NGU Standard (low) 4x
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15th April 2017, 10:37 | #43337 | Link |
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I see. Yes, in theory that would be possible. However, in the long run the plan is to create an NGU chroma upscaling algo which makes use of the higher res luma channel. Since the luma channel is always max 2x as large as the chroma channel, this kind of algo will have to be 2x, too. This new kind of algo will hopefully beat all other algos, so I hope it will be the default algo at some point in the future. Because of this reason I'm not too fond of the idea of spending a lot of time now to implement a combination of chroma quadrupling + image doubling, although it is a nice concept.
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15th April 2017, 11:41 | #43339 | Link | ||||
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So if you "need" to remove it, remove it, just don't waste your time on another NGU variant for this. You can take this image to test with an upscaling to UHD : https://s15.postimg.org/ro3n1k6qz/original.png Or here if you don't want to waste time : NGU Sharp : http://www.mediafire.com/file/aj27g3.../NGU_Sharp.png NGU Sharp SE2 : http://www.mediafire.com/file/d04aw9..._Sharp_SE2.png NGU Standard : http://www.mediafire.com/file/wacasf...U_Standard.png Quote:
On already sharp content, NGU Sharp (low) for chroma doubling is too sharp and quite nasty (see http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/206580 and http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/206596). Quote:
For instance, if I choose "high" for luma doubling, I would have this for chroma doubling : - let madVR decide - low (Bicubic60 AR) - normal (Jinc AR) - high (NGU AA low) - high (NGU Standard low) - high (NGU Sharp low) - very high (NGU AA medium) - very high (NGU Standard medium) - very high (NGU Sharp medium) or any other combinations of algorithms that you find adequate to use... At the moment, new users do not even know which algorithm is used for chroma doubling without displaying the stats. For fun, I tested Bicubic60 AR against Jinc AR : http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/206712 It is not difficult to see the red gradient lines/blocks with Bicubic60 AR, while Jinc AR is smoother and has the highest quality. Quote:
Maybe it is your goal to remove/limit things now from madVR in order propose them back in a "pro" version, so the actual version will remain free ? Last edited by Neo-XP; 15th April 2017 at 14:31. |
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15th April 2017, 12:05 | #43340 | Link | |
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2) Should notice that "low quality content" includes content with very different quality flaws. For example, low quality sources may contain staircase noise, which is less amplified by NGU AA. In other hand, NGU Standard is immune to dark halos. However, in general NGU AA looks more suitable at least for very low-quality content, it brings uniform and natural-looking picture. 3,4) No sir! Reconstruction at the price of NGU would have been wonderful.
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I'm infected with poor sources. Last edited by cork_OS; 15th April 2017 at 12:24. |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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