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Old 8th November 2015, 21:57   #34141  |  Link
madshi
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madVR v0.89.16 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* fixed: occasional aspect ratio problems (introduced in v0.89.14)
* fixed: "refine only once" doesn't affect SuperRes, anymore
* fixed: DXVA decoding + deint -> refresh rate sometimes didn't switch
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Old 8th November 2015, 22:26   #34142  |  Link
Warner306
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As an ardent SuperRes user, I haven't spent any time testing the new sharpening algorithms with upscaled content.

Using Image Enhancements at 1080p -> 1080p:

Sharpen Edges: Too expensive to test, but promising based on a couple of samples.
Crispen Edges: The edge enhancement is noticeable, even at low settings, but the image lacks a uniform increase in detail, making the image appear flat. Not really a fan.
Thin Edges: At 1080p, this degrades the image and is not of any use.
Enhance Detail: For some reason, this appears to be more of a direct replacement for FineSharp. Edge enhancement is not obvious. While the image appears sharper overall. Noise is likely amplified but is not noticeable with the sources I'm using.

I have barely used each algorithm, but I'm having a hard time finding a favourite algorithm. I haven't found an equivalent setting to match the result of SuperRes. SuperRes does not crease the corners of objects as much as these sharpeners, which is why I currently prefer Enhance Detail.
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Old 8th November 2015, 22:30   #34143  |  Link
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The issue with anamorphic video I noticed with "automatically detect hard coded black bars" disabled has been fixed with v.0.89.16. Thanks!

I am getting a huge performance hit when using NNEDI3 quadrupling and any image enhancement set to "refine the image after every ~2x upscaling step".
e.g.
NNEDI3 quadrupling and AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image only once after upscaling is complete", 28.5 ms
NNEDI3 quadrupling and AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image after every ~2x upscaling step", 54.4 ms
super-xbr quadrupling and AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image only once after upscaling is complete", 16.3 ms
super-xbr quadrupling and AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image after every ~2x upscaling step", 17.2 ms

GPU clock speed was constant throughout this testing.

Is this large of a difference expected? I understand there is extra work when moving in and out of YCbCr for NNEDI3 but this is larger than expected. The hit from the NNEDI3 64 quadrupling itself is less than that from running AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image after every ~2x upscaling step".

edit: I should mention that this doesn't bother me as super-xbr quadrupling is excellent, and I can use more upscaling refinements with it, but I thought it was odd so I should mention it.
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Old 8th November 2015, 22:33   #34144  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Crispen Edges: The edge enhancement is noticeable, even at low settings, but the image lacks a uniform increase in detail, making the image appear flat. Not really a fan.
Enhance Detail: For some reason, this appears to be more of a direct replacement for FineSharp. Edge enhancement is not obvious. While the image appears sharper overall. Noise is likely amplified but is not noticeable with the sources I'm using.
FWIW, these two do exactly the opposite thing. The first just works on edges but not "flat" areas, while the second just works on flat areas but not edges. This way you can fine tune how much "enhancement" you want to apply to edges and textures separately. The "crispen edges" algo intentionally only looks at edges and nothing else, so that you can fine tune every aspect of the sharpening process to your exact likings.

These algos are not "either this or that", you can combine all 4 of these to achieve the exact result you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Thin Edges: At 1080p, this degrades the image and is not of any use.
It depends on the source. Some sources have very fat lines, for these "thin edges" can be great. But mostly it's useful after upscaling. Try a tiny bit of "thin edges" after SuperRes, you might like it.
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Old 8th November 2015, 22:35   #34145  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I am getting a huge performance hit when using NNEDI3 quadrupling and any image enhancement set to "refine the image after every ~2x upscaling step".
e.g.
NNEDI3 quadrupling and AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image only once after upscaling is complete", 28.5 ms
NNEDI3 quadrupling and AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image after every ~2x upscaling step", 54.4 ms
super-xbr quadrupling and AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image only once after upscaling is complete", 16.3 ms
super-xbr quadrupling and AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image after every ~2x upscaling step", 17.2 ms

GPU clock speed was constant throughout this testing.

Is this large of a difference expected? I understand there is extra work when moving in and out of YCbCr for NNEDI3 but this is larger than expected. The hit from the NNEDI3 64 quadrupling itself is less than that from running AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image after every ~2x upscaling step".
I haven't really done benchmark tests for these things, but obviously running those algos multiples times costs performance. My future plan is to try to modify/tune the sharpening algos to only have to run once after upscaling, but still achieve a good effect, regardless of the upscaling factor. Currently if the upscaling factor is very large, most of the sharpeners (except SuperRes) lose their effectiveness.
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Old 8th November 2015, 22:51   #34146  |  Link
nlnl
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madshi
Quote:
* fixed: DXVA decoding + deint -> refresh rate sometimes didn't switch
Thanks!
Sorry, but the problem is not fixed here
The log:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7a...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 8th November 2015, 22:58   #34147  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
The issue with anamorphic video I noticed with "automatically detect hard coded black bars" disabled has been fixed with v.0.89.16. Thanks!

I am getting a huge performance hit when using NNEDI3 quadrupling and any image enhancement set to "refine the image after every ~2x upscaling step".
e.g.
NNEDI3 quadrupling and AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image only once after upscaling is complete", 28.5 ms
NNEDI3 quadrupling and AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image after every ~2x upscaling step", 54.4 ms
super-xbr quadrupling and AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image only once after upscaling is complete", 16.3 ms
super-xbr quadrupling and AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image after every ~2x upscaling step", 17.2 ms

GPU clock speed was constant throughout this testing.

Is this large of a difference expected? I understand there is extra work when moving in and out of YCbCr for NNEDI3 but this is larger than expected. The hit from the NNEDI3 64 quadrupling itself is less than that from running AdaptiveSharpen with "refine the image after every ~2x upscaling step".

edit: I should mention that this doesn't bother me as super-xbr quadrupling is excellent, and I can use more upscaling refinements with it, but I thought it was odd so I should mention it.
What is the initial video size? I recently went up to 4k and any refinement got more expensive as it is done @4k. If you use every 2x, would it be possible that those refinement was done at high res then downscale to wqhd( was it you with wqhd and 980ti iirc?)

Sent from my 306SH
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Old 8th November 2015, 23:20   #34148  |  Link
obieobieobie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I think this should be fixed in v0.89.16.
Thank you madshi, I can confirm it is fixed.
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Old 8th November 2015, 23:28   #34149  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlnl View Post
Sorry, but the problem is not fixed here
The log:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7a...ew?usp=sharing
Ok, will look at it next week end.
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Old 8th November 2015, 23:33   #34150  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I haven't really done benchmark tests for these things, but obviously running those algos multiples times costs performance. My future plan is to try to modify/tune the sharpening algos to only have to run once after upscaling, but still achieve a good effect, regardless of the upscaling factor. Currently if the upscaling factor is very large, most of the sharpeners (except SuperRes) lose their effectiveness.
But why would it cost so much more when run twice with NNEDI3 compared to super-xbr? AdaptiveSharpen is running the same number of times and at the same resolutions in both cases but the performance hit is 2600% greater when using NNEDI3 quadrupling. I am using NNEDI3 256 doubling in both cases.

I agree, AdaptiveSharpen is more effective when run twice in this situation. Looking forward to the tweaks for large scaling factors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by baii View Post
What is the initial video size? I recently went up to 4k and any refinement got more expensive as it is done @4k. If you use every 2x, would it be possible that those refinement was done at high res then downscale to wqhd( was it you with wqhd and 980ti iirc?)

Sent from my 306SH
The source res was 720x480 (anamorphic 16:9). However notice the difference between super-xbr and NNEDI3. I get only one extra ms from running AdaptiveSharpen twice (once at 1706x960 and once at 3412x1920 instead of only once at 3412x1920) using super-xbr quadrupling but I get an extra 26ms when running AdaptiveSharpen twice using NNEDI3 quadrupling.

Running AdaptiveSharpen only at the quadrupled res of 3412x1920 costs ~1.4ms using either NNEDI3 or super-xbr quadrupling.

Yes, I am running WQHD with a 980Ti.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 8th November 2015 at 23:53.
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Old 8th November 2015, 23:48   #34151  |  Link
madshi
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Running something in between doubling and quadrupling can make things a lot more complex. If doubling and quadrupling can be done "uninterrupted", I can do it directly in OpenCL without having to involve D3D in between. If shaders need to be run in between, there's a lot of interop back and forth going on. That might explain the performance difference. In any case, as I said before, the plan for the "final" sharpening solution will be to run all sharpening on the fully upscaled video and not in between. But the algos need some improvements to make that work well for big upscaling factors.
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Old 8th November 2015, 23:58   #34152  |  Link
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I think I have settled on the following settings for 1080p -> 1080p content using image enhancements:

Sharpen Edges (0.2)
Enhance Detail (0.5)

These settings result in small but noticeable enhancement. Sharpen Edges leads to less noticeable edge enhancement than Crispen Edges due to its thicker lines, which better blend into the background. However, Sharpen Edges is far too expensive for my system, so I will wait for an updated version.
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Old 9th November 2015, 00:14   #34153  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I think I have settled on the following settings for 1080p -> 1080p content using image enhancements:

Sharpen Edges (0.2)
Enhance Detail (0.5)

These settings result in small but noticeable enhancement. Sharpen Edges leads to less noticeable edge enhancement than Crispen Edges due to its thicker lines, which better blend into the background. However, Sharpen Edges is far too expensive for my system, so I will wait for an updated version.
same here, looks great but Sharpen Edges is too expensive right now
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Old 9th November 2015, 00:33   #34154  |  Link
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same here, looks great but Sharpen Edges is too expensive right now
I like sharpen edges too but it doesn't seem that expensive to me. Which card are you using?

I see an approximately 4.6 ms hit from using sharpen edges at 3412x1920. This is higher than any of the other refinement options but still very useable. Of course performance improvements are always welcome.
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Old 9th November 2015, 00:47   #34155  |  Link
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Wow..what changed in 'sharpen edges' in 'upscaling refinement' between 89.14 and 89.16 which would introduce a large performance hit? Without 'sharpen edges' GPU = 31%, With 'sharpen edges' GPU = 80%. With no changes on my part other than the usual uninstall-copy files-install procedure my HD-7850 GPU usage went from 58% to 80%. Rendering went from ~5ms w/o sharpen edges to ~13.2ms with it.

I've rechecked settings and reset/retested however 'sharpen edges' is now a major performance heavy hitter for me That's a shame for as far as I'm concerned it was the most valuable sharpening algro introduced in 89.14 - enough so that I disabled SuperRes [2] to gain the necessary GPU headroom to run 'sharpen edges' and keep GPU useage with "720p" (1080p screen) below 70% (I settled on 58%).

EDIT: *Shaking my head* Just went back and reinstalled 89.14 and 'sharpen edges' is still a performance heavy hitter I could have sworn... My sincere apology for the incorrect performance assessment.

Last edited by MistahBonzai; 9th November 2015 at 01:30. Reason: corrections
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Old 9th November 2015, 01:07   #34156  |  Link
Warner306
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I like sharpen edges too but it doesn't seem that expensive to me. Which card are you using?

I see an approximately 4.6 ms hit from using sharpen edges at 3412x1920. This is higher than any of the other refinement options but still very useable. Of course performance improvements are always welcome.
I am using a GTS 450. Sharpen Edges is much more expensive than SuperRes upscaling refinement.
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Old 9th November 2015, 01:09   #34157  |  Link
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Originally Posted by MistahBonzai View Post
Wow..what changed in 'sharpen edges' in 'upscaling refinement' between 89.14 and 89.16 which would introduce a large performance hit? Without 'sharpen edges' GPU = 31%, With 'sharpen edges' GPU = 80%. With no changes on my part other than the usual uninstall-copy files-install procedure my HD-7850 GPU usage went from 58% to 80%. Rendering went from ~5ms w/o sharpen edges to ~13.2ms with it.

I've rechecked settings and reset/retested however 'sharpen edges' is now a major performance heavy hitter for me That's a shame for as far as I'm concerned it was the most valuable sharpening algro introduced in 89.14 - enough so that I disabled SuperRes [2] to gain the necessary GPU headroom to run 'sharpen edges' and keep GPU useage with "720p" (1080p screen) below 70% (I settled on 58%).
It was like that from the beginning. I don't think the performance has degraded.
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Old 9th November 2015, 01:13   #34158  |  Link
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I like sharpen edges too but it doesn't seem that expensive to me. Which card are you using?

I see an approximately 4.6 ms hit from using sharpen edges at 3412x1920. This is higher than any of the other refinement options but still very useable. Of course performance improvements are always welcome.
GTX 650 on a motherboard that is so old it only has PCIe 1.0 sadly
maybe one of these years i'll be able to upgrade, but right now i just don't have the $
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Old 9th November 2015, 01:52   #34159  |  Link
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imho fonts or emblems look too blurry with 1080p -> WQHD without SR. Especially true for fine white fonts.
I'm not a fan of artificial sharpness. I even set the sharpness on my TV to 0.
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Old 9th November 2015, 01:56   #34160  |  Link
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madshi, deinterlacing seems to be broken again. Using latest build.

I'm trying to play a DVD file (remuxed into mkv) and it says DXVA deinterlacing, but the interlacing lines are clearly visible, so it's not working. If I set it to Film, it works, but then any sequences that are not film have lines.

UPDATE: Reset to defaults and set all the settings back to my usual values and it seems to be fixed.

Last edited by AngelGraves13; 9th November 2015 at 02:02.
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