madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by leeperry

If AMD finally decided to unlock the NNEDI3 latencies currently taking place then a passive 7790 might suddenly become an option

Don't bother waiting IMO, get the 750 TI it's boss. Overclock the memory too for a bit of a speed boost too barely changing the heat profile.

I can do 64 neurons with most stuff around 720 and 128 neurons under 480. And if I unlocked it's power constraints I could get a lot more, but I'm happy with how quiet it is and it's performance.

[StinDaWg]

750Ti can't do 720p60->1080p60 NNEDI3 can it?

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

750Ti can't do 720p60->1080p60 NNEDI3 can it?

Unlikely. And as I've said earlier it's almost pointless (barring text) to upscale 1280x720 using NNEDI, such a waste of processing for such a marginal improvement, but it'll depend on your content. I'd recommend enabling it and taking screenshots to see if you find the difference worth justifying the purchase of a graphics card hefty enough to do it.

[wolfman2791]

I have a very strange issue: Madvr is causing sound distortion when i put on my headphones. Before you call me crazy... i spent an hour isolating the problem. I put MPC-HC at default setting and the sound was fine. Then i tried the stuff that i use one by one (LAV, etc.). The sound distortion only happened when i switched the renderer to Madvr.

Anyone have a clue as to why this would occur? I'm baffled.

[StinDaWg]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Unlikely. And as I've said earlier it's almost pointless (barring text) to upscale 1280x720 using NNEDI, such a waste of processing for such a marginal improvement, but it'll depend on your content. I'd recommend enabling it and taking screenshots to see if you find the difference worth justifying the purchase of a graphics card hefty enough to do it.

Pointless in your opinion. It's completely worth it to me as I watch a lot of 720p60 sports.

HD7850 level AMD gpu can do it, which is cheaper than a 750ti.

[huhn]

gpus on load can put some power on the case that effects onboard and none "high end" sound cards(not that rare have a PC that does this too). in my experience it affect the front speaker connector more than the one at the back panel.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

Pointless in your opinion. It's completely worth it to me as I watch a lot of 720p60 sports.

HD7850 level AMD gpu can do it, which is cheaper than a 750ti.

I can get a 750 ti for less than the 7850 and on top it is a lot cheaper in the end thanks to the fact it uses a lot less power.

a sharper image is not a better one the downscaler adds aliasing and ringing nothing I like to see.

[wolfman2791]

Originally Posted by huhn

gpus on load can put some power on the case that effects onboard and none "high end" sound cards(not that rare have a PC that does this too). in my experience it affect the front speaker connector more than the one at the back panel.

Ah. Thanks. Not knowing what's up was getting on my nerves lol.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by wolfman2791

Ah. Thanks. Not knowing what's up was getting on my nerves lol.

please double check this. don't forget i'm just guessing.

you could use EVR and let a GPU benchmark run in the back ground and see if this audio issue is there too.

[StinDaWg]

Originally Posted by huhn

a sharper image is not a better one the downscaler adds aliasing and ringing nothing I like to see.

No, and no. There is less aliasing with NNEDI3+downscale than straight up Jinc. It's the primary reason I use it.

[huhn]

yeah it's true that nnedi3 can works like a AA filter but that's not my point.
this only works for aliased source. my point is the downscaler that adds artefacts on top of the nnedi3 upscale (which are very very little). things like lanczos add more than a upsacler like jincs. lanczos is know for it aliasing and ringing of cause way more for its ringing.

[StinDaWg]

Originally Posted by huhn

yeah it's true that nnedi3 can works like a AA filter but that's not my point.
this only works for aliased source. my point is the downscaler that adds artefacts on top of the nnedi3 upscale (which are very very little). things like lanczos add more than a upsacler like jincs. lanczos is know for it aliasing and ringing of cause way more for its ringing.

No.

Seems that you don't actually use NNEDI3 because everything you're saying is wrong. Jinc is not as good as NNEDI3 for sharpness or aliasing, and even madshi would tell you that. You don't have to use Lanczos for downscaling, obviously.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

720p60 sports. HD7850 level AMD gpu can do it

My 1Ghz factory overclocked 7850 can't do 720p60@1080p with NNEDI3 & monostatic ED1.

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

Jinc is not as good as NNEDI3, and even madshi would tell you that.

I ran more tests now that the new toy syndrom has faded away and as much as NNEDI3 is a God send for SD@1080p with even more dramatic improvements the lower the source resolution, I also find it fantastic for 720p@1080p on anime content but on regular movies things look quite artificial to my eyes.

When Jinc showed up in mVR, even madshi agreed that it looked "analog" and this would also match my experience as live action movies look far more natural than with any other scaler. madshi also said that grass and trees looked weird sometimes with NNEDI3, there's no free lunch I'm afraid. Of course YMMV if you are using a >50" screen or a videoprojector with poor sharpness.

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Don't bother waiting IMO, get the 750 TI it's boss. Overclock the memory too for a bit of a speed boost too barely changing the heat profile.

I can do 64 neurons with most stuff around 720 and 128 neurons under 480. And if I unlocked it's power constraints I could get a lot more, but I'm happy with how quiet it is and it's performance.

OK sounds like a plan, I could use tearing-free windowed video as well and there's an ages old bug in the AMD drivers that randomly corrupts the mouse cursor for a few minutes...I do experience it every few weeks, it's plain annoying and totally unacceptable. It still exists in W8.1 FWIR and I tried all supposedly working fixes

[StinDaWg]

Originally Posted by leeperry

My 1Ghz factory overclocked 7850 can't do 720p60@1080p with NNEDI3 & monostatic ED1.


I ran more tests now that the new toy syndrom has faded away and as much as NNEDI3 is a God send for SD@1080p with even more dramatic improvements the lower the source resolution, I also find it fantastic for 720p@1080p on anime content but on regular movies thing look quite artificial to my eyes.

When Jinc showed up in mVR, even madshi agreed that it looked "analog" and this would also match my experience as live action movies look far more natural than with any other scaler. madshi also said that grass and trees looked weird sometimes with NNEDI3, there's no free lunch I'm afraid. Of course YMMV if you are using a >50" screen or a videoprojector with poor sharpness.

I don't use ED. I don't see any difference between it and ordered dithering and the performance hit is too high. The problems with weird grass was seen using 16 neurons IIRC. It goes away with 32+.

[aufkrawall]

I couldn't live without NNEDI3 on my 1440p display anymore. I use it to watch stuff like the news in 720p etc.
4k will be even more cruel, luckily a 970 OC is fast enough for 1080p image doubling with 32 neurons.
720p30 can be quadrupled to 1440p with 64 neurons, with 720p60 I have to go down to 32 neurons.

Btw: Did you know that CUDA/OpenCL forces a Geforce to P2 powerstate? In it, memory clock won't go any higher than 3Ghz with GM204 GPUs.
You have to use the tool Nvidia Inspector to overclock memory in P2 state to the default 3.5Ghz of P0 state. Mine even seems to overclock stable to 3.9Ghz (Samsung memory on MSI Gaming 970) which is 30% more bandwidth than P2 state default. May improve performance a little with bandwidth intensive compute stuff.

I use ordered dithering as well, I've never encountered any benefit of ED.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

No.

Seems that you don't actually use NNEDI3 because everything you're saying is wrong. Jinc is not as good as NNEDI3 for sharpness or aliasing, and even madshi would tell you that. You don't have to use Lanczos for downscaling, obviously.

but you have to use a downscaler that affects most of the work of nnedi3.
720p source with nnedi3 on 1440p screen is a hole different story.

and the real question is. is it really worth to put so much power in it for the difference? you have to answer this question for your self. seeing a difference is not justifying the use for everyone.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

I don't use ED. I don't see any difference between it and ordered dithering and the performance hit is too high.

Agreed, I don't either.. I spent quite some time inspecting the screen close up to find a difference and I could find none, but Leeperry sword he could see a difference)
I did a much closer inspection at the pixel level and although what I did see looked nicer.. but it's impact for imperceivable change (on my screen) makes it not worth enabling.

If your display's backlighting is affected when it's not disabled then there's a good reason for enabling it otherwise I'd recommend using ordered it really is almost as good, unless you just want "the best" and are willing to take the hit. I'd rather save the power for faster rendering or some extra neurons.

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

The problems with weird grass was seen using 16 neurons IIRC. It goes away with 32+.

Yeah, 32 neurons is the best to start with IMO, there isn't much difference beyond 64 IMO, you have somewhat diminishing returns..

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

Pointless in your opinion. It's completely worth it to me as I watch a lot of 720p60 sports.
HD7850 level AMD gpu can do it, which is cheaper than a 750ti.

FWIW I didn't say it was pointless, if it was it surely wouldn't be there. It works well on text and graphics but 720 to 1080 with NNEDI yields you very little for a lot of processing power.
Simply saying "I watch a lot of sports so it's affect on graphics and text make it worthwhile" does not fly in the face of what I said at all.

Now that I think about it, sports scenes where smaller objects are moving a lot could benefit more from NNEDI more perhaps, is this your experience? Perhaps the effect is more pronounced with higher fps also.

[StinDaWg]

Originally Posted by huhn

but you have to use a downscaler that affects most of the work of nnedi3.
720p source with nnedi3 on 1440p screen is a hole different story.

and the real question is. is it really worth to put so much power in it for the difference? you have to answer this question for your self. seeing a difference is not justifying the use for everyone.

Not really. If you use Spline or Lanczos the sharpness increase from using NNEDI3 is mostly kept. I also see less scaling artifacts in the picture over any other algorithm.

The power argument is funny to me. Even using 32 neurons it's only taxing my gpu at about 35%, vs. 15% for Jinc3. So what, 20 or 30 watts more than Jinc? If I cared that much about saving power I would have never bought a plasma, which can use 200-250 watts during bright scenes.

@ryrynz, I was responding to huhn when he said 720p->1080p was pointless.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Unlikely. And as I've said earlier it's almost pointless (barring text) to upscale 1280x720 using NNEDI, such a waste of processing for such a marginal improvement, but it'll depend on your content. I'd recommend enabling it and taking screenshots to see if you find the difference worth justifying the purchase of a graphics card hefty enough to do it.

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

@ryrynz, I was responding to huhn when he said 720p->1080p was pointless.

but he said it was pointless not me.
and feel free to show the differences.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by huhn

but he said it was pointless not me.
and feel free to show the differences.

Indeed. I said almost pointless, that's my experience based on comparisons I've done.

Minuscule differences really don't interest me and I have yet to see a comparison (with normal movie content) which shows it to be worthwhile given the processing power required.