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Old 3rd December 2017, 22:34   #22361  |  Link
Soulnight
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I posted this message today in the Madvr thread but I noticed afterwards that this is actually off-topic for madvr and that it should be posted here. I apologize still for the double post.

Nevcairiel, I need you lights ;-)

Both random and ordered 10bits to 8bits dithering from Lavvideo generate very visible noise/structure, where Madvr "ordered" dithering is invisible to my eyes! But I can't use it. Here is why:

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Originally Posted by Soulnight View Post
Hi,
would it be possible to make dithering in Lavvideo Decoder as good or close to the one in Madvr?

I am asking because currently I use Bluesky FRC with AMD Fluid Motion to use frame interpolation of 4K 10bits 4:2:0 24p signal to 60p.
And the output of bluesky FRC in Madvr is only 8bits, as it seems that AMD Fluid Motion itself does NOT support 10bits.
BlueskyFRC convert P010 to NV12 using driver's function, BEFORE entering AMD Fluid Motion.

My target would be to have a high quality dithering BEFORE entering AMD Fluid Motion: for example in LAVVideo Decoder.

Right now, I can see random noise generated by the dithering method used by BlueskyFRC.
I also tried to deselect 10bits output in LAVvideo decoder in order to dither before in LAVvideo decoder before even entering Blueksy FRC.
However, the result is still not near as good, as when I feed the 10bits 24p signal directly to Madvr with ordered dithering selected there.

Thanks for the help.
Florian
Thx!
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Old 3rd December 2017, 23:00   #22362  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Dithering is as good as its going to get, more complex dithering on the CPU would be too expensive and far too rarely useful to warrant the complexity.
There is several reasons why dithering in madVR would look better, for one dithering as late as possible is always better, if you do it far earlier in the decoder already, you have added noise all the way through the processing chain, which only gets amplified.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 23:31   #22363  |  Link
Soulnight
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Thank for taking time to answer me.
Why should dithering happen on the CPU?
Is it not GPU based?

Here a few Dithering algorithm:
http://www.tannerhelland.com/4660/di...s-source-code/

What I don't really get is why "ordered dithering" from madvr looks perfectly clean while "ordered dithering" with Lavvideo looks very blocky with clear patterns.
I get that the further in the chain the better, but here the chain is very short --> lav-->madvr with no extra sharpness processing whatsoever.

Thx,
Florian

Last edited by Soulnight; 3rd December 2017 at 23:35.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 23:44   #22364  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Any image processing in LAV Video happens on the CPU. As such any advanced techniques are too expensive performance wise. The random or ordered dithering methods are as good as they can be, given the constraints.
If you convert a high-bitdepth image to ordinary 8-bit before the renderer, there will always be a loss, this cannot be avoided.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 23:49   #22365  |  Link
Soulnight
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Ok. Well.
Now I have to hope that AMD will support AMD FLUID Motion with 10bits in the near future...
Is a i7 7700K that limited for a better dithering in Lavvideo?
I mean right now, it's doing nothing and is letting madvr do all the heavy lifting with the GPU.

Last edited by Soulnight; 3rd December 2017 at 23:56.
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Old 5th December 2017, 18:24   #22366  |  Link
ashlar42
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nevcariel, do you think there'll be a new supported release by the end of the year? Is there lots of worthy stuff in the nightlies?
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Old 5th December 2017, 18:33   #22367  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
Is there lots of worthy stuff in the nightlies?
https://github.com/Nevcairiel/LAVFil...60572060e534ca

Do you need them? We don't know.
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Old 5th December 2017, 21:57   #22368  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Hopefully I get some more time over the holidays to finish some things and make a release then.
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Old 5th December 2017, 23:42   #22369  |  Link
LigH
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Bad news from Microsoft: W10 Fall Creators Update removes HEVC codec (which is required to play e.g. Netflix 4K HDR); you could purchase it in the store if you need it ...

I don't know about Netflix. I don't know which combo of hardware and software it requires. Is it bound to MS Media Foundation decoders? Or would LAV Filters be a supported free alternative?
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Old 5th December 2017, 23:45   #22370  |  Link
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Except its free and not for purchase.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/stor...n/9n4wgh0z6vhq

But nothing can replace that, since only it will support the required DRM for Netflix etc.

On that note, as of today there is also a second one for Vorbis/Theora, called "Web Media Extension"
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/stor...s/9n5tdp8vcmhs
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Old 7th December 2017, 09:43   #22371  |  Link
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hi nevcairiel,

when playing hdr movies my external .srt and .ass subtitles look blindingly bright while embedded bluray subs looks fine. tried to lower sub renderer primary colors but it have no effect with hdr files.
is it madvr fault or xysubf? anything to do with lav filters? sorry i dont know where to ask!
any idea?
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Old 7th December 2017, 09:45   #22372  |  Link
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Definitely not LAV Filters.
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Old 7th December 2017, 09:52   #22373  |  Link
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good to know, thanks.
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Old 8th December 2017, 01:02   #22374  |  Link
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YADIF deinterlacing is not working when DXVA is enabled as hardware decoder (native or copy-back doesn't matter). Is this expected?
- Using the latest nightly (0.70.2.80)
- 1080ti with 385.69
- tried nVidia settings deinterlacing inverse telecine checked on and off, no change.

EDIT: copy-back works!

Last edited by bcec; 8th December 2017 at 01:46.
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Old 8th December 2017, 01:10   #22375  |  Link
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Yadif is a pure software deinterlacer. You cannot make DXVA deinterlace with Yadif in the GPU.

Oh, wait, you expected Yadif to deinterlace after pure hardware decoding ... sorry, it is late already.
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Old 8th December 2017, 01:15   #22376  |  Link
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Quote:
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Oh, wait, you expected Yadif to deinterlace after pure hardware decoding ... sorry, it is late already.
yup, I am assuming after doing hardware decoding, software YADIF should be able to kick in. But it doesn't.

At least the way it is presented in the UI, I was expecting it to work because I can select software deinterlacing after enabling hardware decoding.

Is it not supposed to work?
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Old 8th December 2017, 01:32   #22377  |  Link
nevcairiel
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With Copy-Back YADIF should be working fine. With Native it cannot work.

The reason options dont grey out is simple: Not every clip can be hardware decoded, and for those all software options always apply.
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Old 8th December 2017, 01:45   #22378  |  Link
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you are absolutely right (why wouldn't you )

copy back works fine. Thank you for the quick follow-up.
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Old 8th December 2017, 13:01   #22379  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Hopefully I get some more time over the holidays to finish some things and make a release then.
Thanks. I didn't want to put pressure on you in any way. Take all the time needed.
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Old 8th December 2017, 13:39   #22380  |  Link
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Hi, can anyone tell me if FSE (full screen exclusive) is required for Full frame packed MVC playback using AMD cards, I cant get it to work without using MADVR with FSE turned on.
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