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Old 24th May 2020, 11:19   #421  |  Link
hello_hello
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I can't image you'll do much better than smoothing out the baked-in aliasing with QTCMC.

The noise in the film sections is hard to deal with. It looks like the noise removal used previously stabilised what it didn't remove, so it doesn't behave like noise. I think QTGMC would clean it up okay, but it might soften the picture too much. It might be better to just leave it.

Samples 2.zip (7.4 MB)
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:17   #422  |  Link
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when telecined film content is bobbed or field-matched to p60, resulting in half of the frames lasting 1/20th of a second and the other half lasting 1/30th of a second, alternating, instead of each one lasting 1/24th of a second. It's not noticeable to humans, although some people claim it is.
It absolutely is noticeable, it just doesn't necessarily jump out at you as a problem (especially to people who grew in NTSC-land) until you view both versions together.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:50   #423  |  Link
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Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
The noise in the film sections is hard to deal with. It looks like the noise removal used previously stabilised what it didn't remove, so it doesn't behave like noise.
That sounds like you mean the noise is same across frames ie temporally same, maybe somebody added fixed pattern grain. [bad idea]
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Old 24th May 2020, 13:05   #424  |  Link
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I just downloaded and played with Topaz for the first time and I have two things to say about it:

1) It only allows scaling by a single factor, applied to both width and height. It cannot change the aspect ratio. If you want to upscale a fullscreen show (like DS9 or Buffy) from 720x480 to 1600x1200, you're screwed. If you want to upscale a widescreen show (like Andromeda) from 720x480 to 1920x1080, you're screwed. You have to use a conventional resampler like Lanczos at some point to correct the aspect ratio. Or perhaps use a different AI upscaler.

2) Contrary to my expectations, interlaced text, when upscaled with AI, looks absolutely bitchin'. I wish there was a way to make all the text in the show look like this whether it's fading in/out or not. Here's a sample of upscaled interlaced text: https://i.imgur.com/cH4788X.png
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Old 24th May 2020, 15:19   #425  |  Link
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Are there any samples of the original video amongst that lot, or is it all re-encoded?
Every sample was created using the following method.

1). Rip episode with DVD Decrypter
2). Read D2V file into StaxRip to create an MP4 with no other scripting applied. Said MP4 created using quality 12.0, Preset Slow.
3). Clips created in VirtualDub2.

I should have loaded the D2V file directly into VirtualDub2. Truthfully forgot you could do that -- I was pretty tired last night after spending most of the day packing and schlepping. If you guys want to see what that output looks like, I can do that.
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Old 24th May 2020, 15:39   #426  |  Link
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KB,

TVEAI is in pretty rough shape at the moment. The audio pass-through is so bad, you're better off assuming the audio will not work and just planning to do your own remuxing. It encodes in the most basic MP4 profile settings imaginable and there is zero control over output quality in any regard.

You can only do lossless upscaling if you output to PNG or TIFF and I've seen some people say that some content doesn't look as good when pulled apart into individual frames and then stitched back together, though I have not tested that myself. I don't know which content is supposedly affected or what the differences are.

Also, the storage requirements get pretty ugly. It's 4-5MB per frame per PNG and about 16MB per 16-bit TIFF, so you need between 342GB - 1.216TB per episode for upscaling output, and you'd want an SSD for certain over an HDD for rapid file writes (when upscaling) and faster reads (when reassembling). At these data sizes and rates, the gap would be material. I think 16-bit TIFFs may be overkill when upscaling DVD content.

Emissary, Way of the Warrior, and What You Leave Behind would require double this storage requirement if you wanted to do both episodes in a single gulp. So ~644GB - 2.4TB to store the output frames from the entire episode.

I actually liked the 1.1.0 version more in terms of output quality. There's a way to get the older versions if you were interested in comparing the outputs. They are meaningfully different.

Last edited by JoelHruska; 24th May 2020 at 16:07.
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Old 24th May 2020, 18:21   #427  |  Link
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I hadn't even played with video modes. I was just using their single-image upscaler. For video, I would have certainly wanted to test output options to see if exporting XviD AVI was possible. What you're saying is that you have to export from Topaz as a series of PNG files, and then import that series of images into a program like Vdub to turn them back into a video and export with the settings of your choice?
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Old 24th May 2020, 18:26   #428  |  Link
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Katie, you’re in luck. If you want video output from Topaz then you should know that all it exports is xvid. In order to use a modern codec you have to take the sequence of images route.
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Old 24th May 2020, 18:55   #429  |  Link
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Originally Posted by JoelHruska View Post
Every sample was created using the following method.

1). Rip episode with DVD Decrypter
2). Read D2V file into StaxRip to create an MP4 with no other scripting applied. Said MP4 created using quality 12.0, Preset Slow.
3). Clips created in VirtualDub2.
You can split the vob files themselves.
DGindex will output an mpeg video stream, MKVToolNix will split and remux as MKV, TSMuxer with open them and split and remux as TS files.

DGIndex is probably easier as it has a preview, but for samples it's better to work with the source. Not that it matters to me as such, I've played around and re-encoded a few of the h264 samples and I know how I'd handle them.

Did you look at the last few re-encodes I uploaded? I'm just wondering what you thought. I'm not claiming extreme cleverness of anything. I just decimated to 23.976 and ran QTGMC over them. I was just wondering how they compared to whatever method you're using at the moment, that's all.
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Old 24th May 2020, 19:33   #430  |  Link
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Did you look at the last few re-encodes I uploaded?
Haven't checked any yet. Wanted to get the clips posted last night once I understood the DVD source was what people wanted to see. I will look tonight. So far today, the garage has been demanding my attention. (I move on Thurs).
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Old 24th May 2020, 21:50   #431  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SaurusX View Post
Katie, youíre in luck. If you want video output from Topaz then you should know that all it exports is xvid. In order to use a modern codec you have to take the sequence of images route.
But it does so in MP4, not AVI, and it offers no control over bitrate or number of passes or anything like that?
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Old 25th May 2020, 01:14   #432  |  Link
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All,

Updated set of shared files. These clips were exported via DGIndex directly from the DVD VOB.

All of the clip names are identical to what I used in the previous series of posts, except for the addition of ".demuxed" to the file names.

No need for OneDrive this time, and I can't post individual links because I'm not a SendSpace premium member, so here's the link to all 14:

https://www.sendspace.com/filegroup/...pIrpc2%2FSo2GQ

The link below is for the original file descriptions:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...11#post1913411
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Old 25th May 2020, 01:23   #433  |  Link
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Originally Posted by JoelHruska View Post
These clips were exported via DGIndex directly from the DVD VOB.
Now you're cooking with gas.
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Old 25th May 2020, 01:36   #434  |  Link
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But it does so in MP4, not AVI, and it offers no control over bitrate or number of passes or anything like that?
You get four options:
*.MP4
*.PNG
*.TIFF (8-bit)
*.TIFF (16-bit)

You can change the file name and you can choose the upscale model. You can choose to enable audio pass-through and you can choose the multiplier or specific output resolution (within certain restrictions, as you've noted). You can also choose to only upscale part of a video rather than the whole thing.

For now, that's literally everything.

I cannot speak to how Artemis-LQ and Artemis-HQ will treat your own source, but my experience with both suggested they are semi-functional atm as far as DS9 is concerned.

https://www.extremetech.com/wp-conte...rAIScaling.jpg

That's one of the Artemis models run against a generic upscaled DS9 MKV and against my own work on the right. Pretty sure HQ, in this case.

https://www.extremetech.com/wp-conte...Q-Upscaler.jpg

I know this one is Artemis-LQ, specifically. Again, MKV on left, my own output on right.

I'd be very curious to know if you get different results. Most people are sticking with either Gaia-HQ or Gaia-CG.

Also, be advised, Topaz *does* introduce color-shifts on some content. I don't know which or why, but Weyoun's jacket is often color-shifted towards a darker brown.
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Old 25th May 2020, 04:19   #435  |  Link
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Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
I can't image you'll do much better than smoothing out the baked-in aliasing with QTCMC.

The noise in the film sections is hard to deal with. It looks like the noise removal used previously stabilised what it didn't remove, so it doesn't behave like noise. I think QTGMC would clean it up okay, but it might soften the picture too much. It might be better to just leave it.

Samples 2.zip (7.4 MB)
I can confirm that the noise is difficult to deal with. I tried a bunch of different filters - mcdegrainsharp, temporaldenoise2, QTGMC, TNLMeans - and while the intro looked great, the film sections had too soft a picture for my tastes. The more filters I try, the more I prefer just field matching and decimating and leaving the progressive frames alone. I think the higher picture quality outweighs the benefits of denoising, in this case. Viewing distance is a factor too. The noise is less noticeable when I'm sitting on the couch watching on my 4K TV compared to a couple of feet from my computer monitor.
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Old 25th May 2020, 04:51   #436  |  Link
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H_H,

I've looked at SFE-1 on both Samples and Samples 2. I'll check Sisko in the AM.

They're both gorgeous, but I don't see all that much difference between them. When I watched frame-by-frame, I saw the ripple pattern move somewhat differently on the Miranda-class ship's hull when it fires, but I didn't see much else in terms of difference. Where should I be looking?
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Old 25th May 2020, 07:50   #437  |  Link
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Just the resizing. I cropped it but didn't resize to the correct aspect ratio the first time, so I included it again with the second samples.

Looking at the script, for the first one I ran QTGMC over it like this:
QTGMC(InputType=1, Preset="slower")
and for the second one like this:
QTGMC(InputType=1,TR2=3,Preset="Slower",ShutterBlur=3,ShutterAngleSrc=180,ShutterAngleOut=180,SBlurLimit=8)

That may have changed the ripple pattern a tad. The second one should help retain any motion blur, but it doesn't make a huge difference for the CGI.
Or the ripple pattern may just look a bit different due to the resizing.

Last edited by hello_hello; 25th May 2020 at 08:23.
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Old 25th May 2020, 07:59   #438  |  Link
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Originally Posted by StainlessS View Post
That sounds like you mean the noise is same across frames ie temporally same, maybe somebody added fixed pattern grain. [bad idea]
I think it's like the effect you can sometimes get denoising with QTGMC. Because it stabilises the picture, and therefore any remaining noise, if it leaves too much behind and you use a slow speed preset, the effect can be a little like watching video through a fly-screen. Sometimes if I'm leaving noise behind I use a faster speed preset so as not to stabilise it too much.
It doesn't look that bad for the DS9 samples I've seen though, but against a flat background it's fairly static.

I'd be interested to know what was used to filter the noise originally, and/or just how noisy it was. Aside from the static noise left behind, there's a bit of blurring during motion on occasion. That's probably why they didn't remove any more than they did.
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Old 25th May 2020, 14:42   #439  |  Link
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Hello_Hello,

I prefer the 640x480 crop to the 704, less for the CGI and more because it tends to make faces look a little stretched. But they're both absolutely gorgeous.

Also, the lighter QTGMC approach still cleans up the aliasing on the lower hull very nicely.
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Old 25th May 2020, 14:53   #440  |  Link
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If anyone is curious to see what Hello_Hello's samples look like after being run through the two functional Topaz AI upscaler models:

https://www.sendspace.com/filegroup/...8pntkJJg0KsgtR

I'll test the other two again (Artemis) on the properly deinterlaced clips to see if it functions now, but I'll be a little surprised if they do.
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