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Old 13th January 2021, 09:03   #2361  |  Link
soresu
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Environmental organizations should really come out with a browser plugin to force YouTube et all to only stream the best codec that has a HW decoder.
Most new PC's have VP9 HW decoding and obviously all have H264 HW too - if you lack AV1 capable HW then all you have to do in Firefox to only use HW decoders is to disable AV1 playback in the about:config page.

I'm not sure if Chrome has an equivalent easily found switch to control AV1 playback capability.
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Old 13th January 2021, 09:40   #2362  |  Link
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And HDR with 8-bit is much harder. Just encoding Rec 2100 content in 8-bit yields a horrible mess.

And it's challenging to detect full 4K detail in SDR for natural images, and in many cases impossible even by expert viewers. HDR is what makes 4K generally worthwhile for natural images. Seeing the difference between carefully selected 4K and 8K HDR moving images is only possible by expert viewers with 20/10 vision and only on a minority of "stress test" clips.
Ah sorry, I didn't mean using HDR or Rec 2100 for 8 bit.

When I wrote ">10 bpc" I only meant above 10 bpc, not 10 bpc and above.

Some people write > to mean 'more than or equal to', for me it just means 'more than', and >= means 'more than or equal to'. Linguistic consequence of Python dabbling I think.

As to the difference between 2K and 4K being visible without HDR, I would say that depends upon display size and the viewing distance.

IMHO many people get screens too small to even appreciate the resolution uptick from SD to 1080p, and often sit too far away from the screen which only makes the issue worse.

I have a 40 inch 1080p TV which I use as a PC monitor (50 cm away at most), and I can just about see the screen door effect of the pixel separation.

Obviously this gets much worse for a 4K screen, and 8K is never going to be anything but a placebo to the consumer, unless viewing through VR with insane pixel res per eye and the right optics to capitalise on it.
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Old 14th January 2021, 13:52   #2363  |  Link
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rav1e v0.4.0 is out: https://github.com/xiph/rav1e/releases/tag/v0.4.0
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Old 14th January 2021, 18:55   #2364  |  Link
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Ah sorry, I didn't mean using HDR or Rec 2100 for 8 bit.

When I wrote ">10 bpc" I only meant above 10 bpc, not 10 bpc and above.
Gotcha. And yes, I've not seen many cases where >10-bit is needed for final consumer delivery presuming that good dithering was done. Things are simpler with more precision, because various dithering stages can be skipped (dithering-on-encoding is just one; the playback device can often have at least 2 rounds of dithering post-decode). In content creation, at least 2 bits more than deliver should be used so that dithering isn't required in all the intermediate steps.

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As to the difference between 2K and 4K being visible without HDR, I would say that depends upon display size and the viewing distance.
Those can also be limiting factors. But the fundamental limitation is the human visual system and the content. For >2K to look better, you'll need content with frequencies greater than Nyquist to have material that can use more pixels. Lots of sources won't really have that, and a lot more sources will only have that in grain (source or synthetic). Most 4K studio content we see has lots of 2K + grain shots.

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IMHO many people get screens too small to even appreciate the resolution uptick from SD to 1080p, and often sit too far away from the screen which only makes the issue worse.
Very true. For years I've been telling people that often the best upgrade to their TV experience would be pushing their couch forward.

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I have a 40 inch 1080p TV which I use as a PC monitor (50 cm away at most), and I can just about see the screen door effect of the pixel separation.
Yeah, that's WAY too close! If you're looking at the center of the screen, the viewing angle to the edges of the screen are going to be terrible. You actually need to move your head around to see different parts, and push your chair back to see the whole image at once.

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Obviously this gets much worse for a 4K screen, and 8K is never going to be anything but a placebo to the consumer, unless viewing through VR with insane pixel res per eye and the right optics to capitalise on it.
And with VR, only because the optics reduce the actual worse case detail delivered. Its really more about the fundamental limits of how small an arc we can resolve visually.
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Old 14th January 2021, 21:14   #2365  |  Link
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Another aspect of VR is that when it comes to pre-produced content you're effectively rendering a 360 degree scene and then using equirectangular projection to fit that into a standard video frame size. During playback the player wraps that video inside a sphere and drops your viewport inside of that sphere. This means that you actually look at a small piece of the video. With a ~4K video and a ~2.5K head mounted display / headset with a typical FOV you're going to be looking at maybe 1/4 of the encoded resolution. The player of course has to upscale to hit the native HMD display. All of this means that you're basically watching sub HD video on a very dense screen as close as your eyes can focus

360 video is generally pretty boring, but to really maximize the potential you'd basically want a 16k video. Some companies (Pixvana) tried to get around this by cutting the video into slices and only streaming one or two at a time. This theoretically lets you get higher resolution during playback and lower bandwidth (since you're not streaming / decoding / processing everything you can't see). Ultimately 360 video just does not scale though, and the lack of parallax is disturbing and uncomfortable for many. Here's hoping for lots of neat developments in light field capture, compression, and delivery. The guys at Lytro were doing wild and crazy stuff a few years ago before they ran out of money. I wonder what Google is doing with all that IP...
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Old 15th January 2021, 19:24   #2366  |  Link
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Yeah, I've got ~7 patents on VR encoding and playback, and it's not something I see a way to make work for customers for scripted content. Video games are obviously a good fit for some genres, and some experiences more like museum curation can be great. But VR is mainly a new thing, not a new way to deliver old things.

And video quality is at least 15 years behind what we can do with a 2D flat screen.
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Old 17th January 2021, 14:57   #2367  |  Link
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Google to require all new android tv device model released after march 31st 2021 must include AV1 decode support: https://www.xda-developers.com/googl...ideo-decoding/

We will therefore see all new android tv box models having support and also some tv's also use android tv so they will support av1 too.
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Old 18th January 2021, 10:06   #2368  |  Link
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Here's hoping for lots of neat developments in light field capture, compression, and delivery. The guys at Lytro were doing wild and crazy stuff a few years ago before they ran out of money. I wonder what Google is doing with all that IP...
I asked a VFX industry vet who worked on The Jungle Book about lightfield camera tech at a 3D animation and VFX conference held at our uni.

His impression was that it was potentially amazing (especially for potentially rendering green screen filming redundant), but that the processing and storage hardware was reminiscent of the early days of computers size wise, and not at all practical for production film use at that time (this was maybe early 2018).

Google may well be simply concentrating on downsizing the technologies problems at the moment.

Decreasing compute and storage demands to a reasonable level would go a long way towards making it viable for wider use, even if just for the VFX industry to begin with.

OTOH if Lytro's patents are broad enough they may just be sitting back and waiting for a gold mine to mature when some other company does all that R&D heavy lifting for them.

As someone who had to monkey about with messy green screen footage in NUKE I'm definitely excited by the possibilities in lightfield capture - though I would probably settle for just high res depth map data captured for each frame of video.
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Old 19th January 2021, 18:11   #2369  |  Link
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I asked a VFX industry vet who worked on The Jungle Book about lightfield camera tech at a 3D animation and VFX conference held at our uni.

His impression was that it was potentially amazing (especially for potentially rendering green screen filming redundant), but that the processing and storage hardware was reminiscent of the early days of computers size wise, and not at all practical for production film use at that time (this was maybe early 2018).

Google may well be simply concentrating on downsizing the technologies problems at the moment.
Lytro ramped down all their feature film R&D after they were acquired. Whatever Google is doing with them, it's not trying to create the next Panavision or Arri.

The stuff was really complex on-set. It made early 3-strip Technicolor look simple. And while some components could be shrunk down, fundamentally you need a lot of lenses over a pretty wide area for the tech to work.
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Old 19th January 2021, 21:44   #2370  |  Link
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The stuff was really complex on-set. It made early 3-strip Technicolor look simple. And while some components could be shrunk down, fundamentally you need a lot of lenses over a pretty wide area for the tech to work.
Metalens tech developments might solve the lens problem.

They not only increase the versatility of lenses (much lighter, thinner, and even achromatic focusing in a single lens element) but make them much easier to manufacture en masse.

Making a metalens is more like manufacturing a computer chip with photolithography processes, rather than the cutting and polishing of conventional curved lenses used today.

It makes sense to make a big change all at once for lightfield capture considering LF itself is a big change from conventional camera technology - might as well make a clean break.
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Old 19th January 2021, 22:47   #2371  |  Link
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We should probably start a "Encoding for VR" thread.
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Old 27th January 2021, 11:32   #2372  |  Link
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PotPlayer 1.7.21419 released today adds support for DXVA hardware decoding of AV1.
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Old 27th January 2021, 21:43   #2373  |  Link
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PotPlayer 1.7.21419 released today adds support for DXVA hardware decoding of AV1.
The version on their site is still from September 2020. Where are you finding daily builds?
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Old 27th January 2021, 21:58   #2374  |  Link
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The version on their site is still from September 2020. Where are you finding daily builds?
The version on their website is the new version, they just haven't updated the changelog on their website yet.
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Old 30th January 2021, 13:20   #2375  |  Link
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PotPlayer 1.7.21419 released today adds support for DXVA hardware decoding of AV1.

They should add D3D11 as well.
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Old 17th February 2021, 12:57   #2376  |  Link
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New uploads: (MSYS2; MinGW32 / MinGW64: GCC 10.2.0)

AOM v2.0.1-1254-gdb9ae9d7a

rav1e 0.5.0-alpha (1869a8b2 / 2021-02-15)

dav1d 0.8.1-70 (gb768fdb / 2021-02-15)

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dav1d [dec]:0.8.1-61-g2e73051, aom [enc/dec]:2.0.1-1224-g89fc93496, rav1e [enc]:0.4.0 (p20210202-11-gbc17f485)
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Old 22nd February 2021, 12:56   #2377  |  Link
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dav1d 0.8.2 'Eurasian hobby' the fast and lean AV1 decoder

This is a middle-size update of the dav1d decoder, from the 0.8.x branch.This release adds most of the remaining NEON optimizations for ARM, especially for 10/12bit bitdepth, in both ARM32 and ARM64.This release also split the post-filters into their own threads.

This release speeds up quite a bit the desktop version, notably in the coefficient decoding and the MSAC parts. It also introduces the first 10bit optimizations for x86.

Finally, this release improves the speed in numerous parts of the decoder, improves the player shipped and brings other fixes.



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Old 23rd February 2021, 12:34   #2378  |  Link
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Avif feature in Firefox next release will been delayed because of an important bug.

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Old 19th March 2021, 03:03   #2379  |  Link
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NETINT Announces the World’s First Commercially Available Hardware AV1 Encoder for the Data Center
https://netint.ca/netint-announces-t...e-data-center/
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Old 19th March 2021, 06:00   #2380  |  Link
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NETINT Announces the World’s First Commercially Available Hardware AV1 Encoder for the Data Center
https://netint.ca/netint-announces-t...e-data-center/
Wow, their web page seems so atavistic. They're talking about replacing SW for ASIC encoding for advanced encoders. It's like rewinding the last 20 years of compression evolution.

In general, the more complex the codec, the bigger advantage SW encoders have had in quality over HW. AV1 is the most complex video codec, ever. It's hard for me to imagine how an ASIC could deliver competitive quality.

But maybe they've found magic! I look forward to seeing its output.
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