Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 28th January 2018, 17:14   #48701  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,406
Are you watching 4K content on a display with a resolution higher than 4K? If so I would recommend NGU AA for chroma and NGU Sharp for luma. If your display is 4K or lower the options change.

Doubling is not useful unless you are upscaling, it does not automatically improve quality. There is nothing "stronger" than NGU and I would not say "super-xbr and NGU". NGU >> super-xbr.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2018, 17:16   #48702  |  Link
d3rd3vil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 92
NNEDI isnt even there anymore....ok so NGU. No I am watching the 4k stuff on a 4k display. Just want to maximize the quality. So NGU AA chroma and NGU Sharp for a 4k display doesnt do much? And there is the SuperRes filter and lots of stuff in upscaling refinement. But all that doesnt really do sth with 4k stuff on a 4k display?! Like it doesnt matter what to select under image upscaling like doubling or upscaling Jinc.....
So what exactly does improve the quality at least a bit?

Last edited by d3rd3vil; 28th January 2018 at 17:21.
d3rd3vil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2018, 17:25   #48703  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 896
If you're watching 4K on a 4K display nothing is needed except chroma upscaling.
If you want to refine the image, look in processing => artifact removal/image enhancements.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 22H2, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters/ReClock/madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400 oc'd, GeForce 1050 Ti 536.40
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2018, 17:29   #48704  |  Link
d3rd3vil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
If you're watching 4K on a 4K display nothing is needed except chroma upscaling.
If you want to refine the image, look in processing => artifact removal/image enhancements.
Yeah oki dok god bless you. Gotta look at the image enhancements settings mostly
d3rd3vil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2018, 20:37   #48705  |  Link
mytbyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3rd3vil View Post
Yeah oki dok god bless you. Gotta look at the image enhancements settings mostly
Just be mindful, madshi claims that if scaling is set to DXVA, chroma upscaling is also done in DXVA and setting there have no effect, if I understand correctly...
mytbyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2018, 22:40   #48706  |  Link
bcec
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 81
I find madVR's 'compress highlights' of HDR->SDR conversion to be too strong. It is trying to recover too much highlights, so much so that the result looks flat, without the necessary contrast.

For instance, a particular scene from Bladerunner 2049

bluray
uhd with madvr HDR->SDR conversion
- 130nits
- preserve hue (hi, 50/50)
- compress highlights (measure peak lum, restore details, AB-100, AR)

It is worth noting that if I passthrough HDR to the display, what I see with my eyes is closer to bluray. To my eyes, highlights look bright and blown.

@madshi, would it be possible to tone down the strength of highlight recovery, or provide an option?

Last edited by bcec; 29th January 2018 at 00:32.
bcec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2018, 00:16   #48707  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 896
Did you try 0% luminance reduction/100% saturation?

PS: please don't embed 1:1 images in the forum.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 22H2, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters/ReClock/madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400 oc'd, GeForce 1050 Ti 536.40
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2018, 00:39   #48708  |  Link
bcec
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Did you try 0% luminance reduction/100% saturation?
0/100 is for hue, right? I don't see it making any difference for highlight compression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
PS: please don't embed 1:1 images in the forum.
Thanks. Changed to links.
bcec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2018, 00:48   #48709  |  Link
mytbyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 212
Preserve hue makes RM_UHD 1000 nit 100% Amp 100% Sat calibration patterns very pale and of all kinds of different hues depending on choice, so the one who doesn't have an HDR TV doesn't really know which choice is closest to correct...

Last edited by mytbyte; 29th January 2018 at 01:00.
mytbyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2018, 09:26   #48710  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Upgraded from 960 to 1060, NGU high supersampling unlocked on 1080 content, nice.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2018, 14:29   #48711  |  Link
steakhutzeee
Registered User
 
steakhutzeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 225
Actually, the screen shot settings in madvr works with the default F5 key for screen shot of mpc be?
__________________
Intel i5-4590 - MSI R9 270X 2GB - 8GB RAM
steakhutzeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2018, 20:54   #48712  |  Link
Axelpowa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 16
Native or Copyback

Hi!

First of all I would like to thank you all the community that supports this software.

I have some doubts I'm not sure about.

First, which is better to use? Dxva2 native or copyback. I read that some options can only be used under copyback (image enhancements perhaps?)

Then, under ngu sharp there is an option called superresolution, but I don't see any difference in using at maximum strength or not using it.

My gpu is a geforce gtx 1080 msi armor, I5 7600 kabylake.

Regards!
Axelpowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2018, 23:23   #48713  |  Link
Megalith
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsnhd View Post
Can you link an image of that, what GPU card you're using? I'm using Intel iGPU Hd4600 to downscale 4k on 1080p display with DXVA and haven't noticed any jaggy.
I am using a 1080 Ti. Interestingly, DXVA looks considerably worse than even Nearest Neighbor:

DXVA:



Nearest Neighbor:



I wonder if there is something I should adjust in the NVIDIA control panel, or this is just how it is.
Megalith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2018, 01:25   #48714  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
1080Ti and you want to use dxva? Why?
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2018, 01:28   #48715  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalith View Post
I wonder if there is something I should adjust in the NVIDIA control panel, or this is just how it is.
Are you using DXVA2 Native decoding in LAV?
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2018, 01:35   #48716  |  Link
austinminton
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 71
It seems to me the automatic bit depth switching in nvidia cp has stopped working as intended. Earlier if I would select 12 bit in 4k@23 RGB full and then switch to 4k@60, 4k@60 would work at 8bit and 4k@23 would continue to work at 12 bit. Now going back to 4k@23 (after a reboot) goes back to 8 bit. I like to keep my desktop at 4k@60. As an enhancement, would it be possible to allow to specify bit depth in auto display switching in madvr? That would remove all dependence on nvidia cp and its quirks.
austinminton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2018, 02:07   #48717  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 331
You're not alone. Other quirky things too. MPC-BE, instead of quitting, replays and it's sporadic. Sometimes starting a title produces a black screen and many attempts later finally plays back perfectly. Other times, resetting 12 bit brings everything to life. Going to system image restore back to Jan 3rd prior to updating madVR, LAV, MPC -BE nightly, GPU driver, etc. Then slowly update one at a time and test a bit. If I get any results, I'll post back.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2018, 02:37   #48718  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,351
I guess welcome back from vacation for me. Thanks, Microsoft. So I got a new insider slow ring build (17074) and now 3D playback is seriously broken for me. I've reverted the nVidia driver and J River MC 23 to previous versions that were working before I left for vacation and the problem is not resolved. Essentially, 3D playback plays fine but the screen goes completely blank when I try to bring up the player UI. I've tried in my normal windowed mode and FSE and both exhibit the behavior. If it's playing 3D, any time the player UI tries to draw it completely black screens me. Awesome. Just awesome. Anyway, I know we're not even going to think about trying to fix issues for in flight insider builds of windows but I just wanted to caution others that are in the slow ring that if you see this behavior, it appears to be something MS has done. Now to figure out what the hell I'm going to do to get myself out of this mess....do I forge ahead with a fast build or do I try to revert...decisions decisions. Maybe I'll throw darts at my tv and choose. LOL
__________________
HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED
SamuriHL is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2018, 04:02   #48719  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 896
@austinminton I think madshi has said that the API doesn't provide him a way to set the display output bit depth.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 22H2, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters/ReClock/madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400 oc'd, GeForce 1050 Ti 536.40
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2018, 08:31   #48720  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
I've not seen this option doing any harm and it saves a ton of performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Since we have real 4K content now, maybe I should activate the trade quality option "scale chroma separately" by default, because it will give a pretty large performance boost for 1080p displays, with only a very small quality loss?
Well I've looked at a few 4K videos and it does "harm" AFAIC, enough that I'd rather keep the option disabled and take almost 20 odd ms hit on my 1060. It's not like I'm doing anything with the 4K content other than downscaling anyway.. but with this option enabled as you can see in my previous screenshots it certainly affects the clarity of the image and based on what I've seen it's worth keeping it unticked if you have the performance to spare.
It's not just the general "chroma things" that get touched either like with upscaling..the whole image basically loses some vibrancy with this enabled.

Last edited by ryrynz; 30th January 2018 at 22:47.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.