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24th August 2011, 21:22 | #61 | Link | |
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I'll fix it in 0.6 by setting the culture used to parse to invariant. Edit: Here's a preview release, see if that fixes it. http://www.mediafire.com/?04i9rct4be5q7pn
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Forget about my old .3dlut stuff, just use mpv if you want accurate color management Last edited by nand chan; 24th August 2011 at 21:30. |
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24th August 2011, 21:49 | #62 | Link | |
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24th August 2011, 21:53 | #63 | Link | ||
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Well, atm I use an 8bit VGA connection w/ a 10bit CLUT...so all is well, but soon or later I'll be upgrading to a 40" LCD from SONY/LG(I want at least 4K:1 native CR) so it'll be about a 8bit CLUT on top of a 8bit 3DLUT AFAIK...so ideally I would like Argyll's calibration to be embedded within the 3DLUT. To avoid all those YCbCr>RGB>YCbCr lossy conversions, ideally I would like to input a 16bit RGB gamut mapping LUT from cr3dlut, merge it w/ a .cal file and output a BT.601/709 8bit YUY2 LUT to use w/ rgb3dlut() in ffdshow. But this would very much require a "reset CLUT while playing" option in mVR, otherwise it'll end up useless....and maybe the flat screen I'll be buying will have serious 10/12bit calibration options so I won't have to use a .cal kludge anymore So as I said earlier, it's all sheer brainstorming at this point from my side...still, I know some ppl already requested the ability to merge gamut mapping and .cal files together in order to avoid having the CLUT messing around w/ mVR's dithering, but I dunno how much of a PQ difference it would make. And at the end of the day, adding three 1D CLUT's on top of a 3DLUT is nothing more than a kludge at the price of a dispensable quality loss. Quote:
Here's a 0-255 8bit YUY2 LUT from my CRT gamut to SMPTE-C: BT709_SMPTE-C.rar Last edited by leeperry; 25th August 2011 at 03:03. |
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24th August 2011, 22:20 | #64 | Link | |||||
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Then you'd just have to use that 8-bit RGB lut in ffdshow. It won't be YUY2 though, the problem here would be that .cal doesn't work in YUY2 space - it works in RGB space, so you can't just “apply” a .cal to a YUY2 lut without converting all of the values back and forth. (These won't necessarily be lossy because conversions are performed with 64-bit precision) Quote:
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It's certainly an advantage, but you are right, the PQ difference in real world scenarios is debatable. Quote:
Edit: Alright, seems like cr3dlut ignores the Color Encoding field as well and just scans through the parameters file to figure out which value type to use. You can take that YCbCr -> RGB .3dlut as-is and just apply a .cal onto it, should already be fully supported* because the .cal process only modifies the output value and not the input value. It's still a good reference file though, so I know what to scan for to detect ranges etc. * Since my scripts only work with yCMS parameters at the moment, you'll have to tag your .3dluts as full range using tag3dlut --full -i BT709_SMPTE-C.3dlut, otherwise it will assume limited range and mess up the colors. But after doing that, applycal -i BT709_SMPTE-C.3dlut your_cal_file.cal should work fine.
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Forget about my old .3dlut stuff, just use mpv if you want accurate color management Last edited by nand chan; 25th August 2011 at 04:21. |
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24th August 2011, 22:49 | #65 | Link |
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Thank you very much for your software
it was so boring to do calibration and after take measure with colorhcfr and after export to Excel and after make data for madvr. Thank You ! edit : I use your pre 0.6 version because of decimal issue. If i do copy & paste of the result, the all the . are convert to , and I can not paste correctly into madVR (can not click on apply in madVR) Anyway, I was able to generate directly a 3dlut with ti3parser and ycms and use it in madVR Last edited by tschi; 24th August 2011 at 23:18. |
24th August 2011, 23:22 | #66 | Link | |
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I think I'll just set a global culture information for the entire application, reduce the amount of hassle.
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24th August 2011, 23:58 | #67 | Link | |
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http://www.mediafire.com/?ct1xzd6h492d6e3
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Forget about my old .3dlut stuff, just use mpv if you want accurate color management |
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25th August 2011, 02:02 | #68 | Link | |||
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Hopefuly, madshi is reading this: an option to bypass the graphic card's CLUT when mVR is playing would be amazing Quote:
Last edited by leeperry; 25th August 2011 at 02:05. |
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25th August 2011, 02:29 | #69 | Link | |
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Also keep in mind that some tools* may not work entirely correctly yet because I haven't written code for separately detecting the input depth and output depth (I'll add that by 0.7), so right now if the output range changes then the entire range changes.
I'll write code sooner or later to pulldown the input range and output range independently of each-other and detect both ranges correctly. *This should probably just affect changedepth -r and imagecal -3 Quote:
* Since .3dLUTs can be so different (bytes, ushorts, floats, PC levels, TV levels, color encoding etc) I generate the correct function for an operation during runtime - or at least, I used to, I could probably reduce these lambdas to static delegates now that I'm just about finished outlying all logic to the unified 64-bit floating point pipeline. What I'll probably doing by version 0.7 or 0.8 is abstracting all transformation operations behind an ITransformationProvider interface and compositing these objects together on the fly and packaging them into a TransformationFactory. That way you will be able to serialize a bunch of different composite operations into a loadable file and pass them around, or store them inside a .3dlut's meta-tags, allowing for rapid prototyping, modification and large-scale distribution of environment-tailored 3dLUTs through a common interface. Then I could probably create a drag and drop UI front-end for it that allows you to visualize composite transformations and preview them on the fly. But for now, the delegates shall suffice.
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Forget about my old .3dlut stuff, just use mpv if you want accurate color management Last edited by nand chan; 25th August 2011 at 02:49. |
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25th August 2011, 03:16 | #70 | Link |
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It all sounds very appetizing, even though most of it flies way above my head...but I like the GUI part
I already tried to update .net from 2.0 to 4.0, it started downloading zillion updates, deleted all the files I had at the root of my C: drive, ended up claiming more than 1GB of hard drive space, and then whined right in the middle that some components couldn't be updated...duh. .net is great for coders, but it's a whole bunch of bloat as far as I can see. Last edited by leeperry; 25th August 2011 at 03:19. |
25th August 2011, 03:42 | #71 | Link | |
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Updating to 3.5 on Windows XP also worked fine back when I was using it. Note: .NET is also great for end users because it allows processor-specific optimization on the target platform. It's the reason why I can distribute a single managed executable that will assemble down to the correct architecture (x86, AMD64 / Intel 64, SSE etc.) when you run it for the first time. Here are some prerequisites:
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Forget about my old .3dlut stuff, just use mpv if you want accurate color management Last edited by nand chan; 25th August 2011 at 03:45. |
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25th August 2011, 07:34 | #72 | Link |
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Quick comment on dispclut.exe. Using --reset (Windows-default 8-bit CLUT?) doesn't do the desired behavior, since most calibration applications use a 16-bit linear CLUT.
--reset results in: Code:
#GammaRamp 0 0 0 0 1 256 256 256 2 512 512 512 3 768 768 768 4 1024 1024 1024 5 1280 1280 1280 6 1536 1536 1536 7 1792 1792 1792 8 2048 2048 2048 9 2304 2304 2304 10 2560 2560 2560 11 2816 2816 2816 12 3072 3072 3072 13 3328 3328 3328 14 3584 3584 3584 15 3840 3840 3840 16 4096 4096 4096 17 4352 4352 4352 18 4608 4608 4608 19 4864 4864 4864 20 5120 5120 5120 21 5376 5376 5376 22 5632 5632 5632 23 5888 5888 5888 24 6144 6144 6144 25 6400 6400 6400 26 6656 6656 6656 27 6912 6912 6912 28 7168 7168 7168 29 7424 7424 7424 30 7680 7680 7680 31 7936 7936 7936 32 8192 8192 8192 33 8448 8448 8448 34 8704 8704 8704 35 8960 8960 8960 36 9216 9216 9216 37 9472 9472 9472 38 9728 9728 9728 39 9984 9984 9984 40 10240 10240 10240 41 10496 10496 10496 42 10752 10752 10752 43 11008 11008 11008 44 11264 11264 11264 45 11520 11520 11520 46 11776 11776 11776 47 12032 12032 12032 48 12288 12288 12288 49 12544 12544 12544 50 12800 12800 12800 51 13056 13056 13056 52 13312 13312 13312 53 13568 13568 13568 54 13824 13824 13824 55 14080 14080 14080 56 14336 14336 14336 57 14592 14592 14592 58 14848 14848 14848 59 15104 15104 15104 60 15360 15360 15360 61 15616 15616 15616 62 15872 15872 15872 63 16128 16128 16128 64 16384 16384 16384 65 16640 16640 16640 66 16896 16896 16896 67 17152 17152 17152 68 17408 17408 17408 69 17664 17664 17664 70 17920 17920 17920 71 18176 18176 18176 72 18432 18432 18432 73 18688 18688 18688 74 18944 18944 18944 75 19200 19200 19200 76 19456 19456 19456 77 19712 19712 19712 78 19968 19968 19968 79 20224 20224 20224 80 20480 20480 20480 81 20736 20736 20736 82 20992 20992 20992 83 21248 21248 21248 84 21504 21504 21504 85 21760 21760 21760 86 22016 22016 22016 87 22272 22272 22272 88 22528 22528 22528 89 22784 22784 22784 90 23040 23040 23040 91 23296 23296 23296 92 23552 23552 23552 93 23808 23808 23808 94 24064 24064 24064 95 24320 24320 24320 96 24576 24576 24576 97 24832 24832 24832 98 25088 25088 25088 99 25344 25344 25344 100 25600 25600 25600 101 25856 25856 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37632 37632 37632 148 37888 37888 37888 149 38144 38144 38144 150 38400 38400 38400 151 38656 38656 38656 152 38912 38912 38912 153 39168 39168 39168 154 39424 39424 39424 155 39680 39680 39680 156 39936 39936 39936 157 40192 40192 40192 158 40448 40448 40448 159 40704 40704 40704 160 40960 40960 40960 161 41216 41216 41216 162 41472 41472 41472 163 41728 41728 41728 164 41984 41984 41984 165 42240 42240 42240 166 42496 42496 42496 167 42752 42752 42752 168 43008 43008 43008 169 43264 43264 43264 170 43520 43520 43520 171 43776 43776 43776 172 44032 44032 44032 173 44288 44288 44288 174 44544 44544 44544 175 44800 44800 44800 176 45056 45056 45056 177 45312 45312 45312 178 45568 45568 45568 179 45824 45824 45824 180 46080 46080 46080 181 46336 46336 46336 182 46592 46592 46592 183 46848 46848 46848 184 47104 47104 47104 185 47360 47360 47360 186 47616 47616 47616 187 47872 47872 47872 188 48128 48128 48128 189 48384 48384 48384 190 48640 48640 48640 191 48896 48896 48896 192 49152 49152 49152 193 49408 49408 49408 194 49664 49664 49664 195 49920 49920 49920 196 50176 50176 50176 197 50432 50432 50432 198 50688 50688 50688 199 50944 50944 50944 200 51200 51200 51200 201 51456 51456 51456 202 51712 51712 51712 203 51968 51968 51968 204 52224 52224 52224 205 52480 52480 52480 206 52736 52736 52736 207 52992 52992 52992 208 53248 53248 53248 209 53504 53504 53504 210 53760 53760 53760 211 54016 54016 54016 212 54272 54272 54272 213 54528 54528 54528 214 54784 54784 54784 215 55040 55040 55040 216 55296 55296 55296 217 55552 55552 55552 218 55808 55808 55808 219 56064 56064 56064 220 56320 56320 56320 221 56576 56576 56576 222 56832 56832 56832 223 57088 57088 57088 224 57344 57344 57344 225 57600 57600 57600 226 57856 57856 57856 227 58112 58112 58112 228 58368 58368 58368 229 58624 58624 58624 230 58880 58880 58880 231 59136 59136 59136 232 59392 59392 59392 233 59648 59648 59648 234 59904 59904 59904 235 60160 60160 60160 236 60416 60416 60416 237 60672 60672 60672 238 60928 60928 60928 239 61184 61184 61184 240 61440 61440 61440 241 61696 61696 61696 242 61952 61952 61952 243 62208 62208 62208 244 62464 62464 62464 245 62720 62720 62720 246 62976 62976 62976 247 63232 63232 63232 248 63488 63488 63488 249 63744 63744 63744 250 64000 64000 64000 251 64256 64256 64256 252 64512 64512 64512 253 64768 64768 64768 254 65024 65024 65024 255 65280 65280 65280 Code:
#GammaRamp 0 0 0 0 1 257 257 257 2 514 514 514 3 771 771 771 4 1028 1028 1028 5 1285 1285 1285 6 1542 1542 1542 7 1799 1799 1799 8 2056 2056 2056 9 2313 2313 2313 10 2570 2570 2570 11 2827 2827 2827 12 3084 3084 3084 13 3341 3341 3341 14 3598 3598 3598 15 3855 3855 3855 16 4112 4112 4112 17 4369 4369 4369 18 4626 4626 4626 19 4883 4883 4883 20 5140 5140 5140 21 5397 5397 5397 22 5654 5654 5654 23 5911 5911 5911 24 6168 6168 6168 25 6425 6425 6425 26 6682 6682 6682 27 6939 6939 6939 28 7196 7196 7196 29 7453 7453 7453 30 7710 7710 7710 31 7967 7967 7967 32 8224 8224 8224 33 8481 8481 8481 34 8738 8738 8738 35 8995 8995 8995 36 9252 9252 9252 37 9509 9509 9509 38 9766 9766 9766 39 10023 10023 10023 40 10280 10280 10280 41 10537 10537 10537 42 10794 10794 10794 43 11051 11051 11051 44 11308 11308 11308 45 11565 11565 11565 46 11822 11822 11822 47 12079 12079 12079 48 12336 12336 12336 49 12593 12593 12593 50 12850 12850 12850 51 13107 13107 13107 52 13364 13364 13364 53 13621 13621 13621 54 13878 13878 13878 55 14135 14135 14135 56 14392 14392 14392 57 14649 14649 14649 58 14906 14906 14906 59 15163 15163 15163 60 15420 15420 15420 61 15677 15677 15677 62 15934 15934 15934 63 16191 16191 16191 64 16448 16448 16448 65 16705 16705 16705 66 16962 16962 16962 67 17219 17219 17219 68 17476 17476 17476 69 17733 17733 17733 70 17990 17990 17990 71 18247 18247 18247 72 18504 18504 18504 73 18761 18761 18761 74 19018 19018 19018 75 19275 19275 19275 76 19532 19532 19532 77 19789 19789 19789 78 20046 20046 20046 79 20303 20303 20303 80 20560 20560 20560 81 20817 20817 20817 82 21074 21074 21074 83 21331 21331 21331 84 21588 21588 21588 85 21845 21845 21845 86 22102 22102 22102 87 22359 22359 22359 88 22616 22616 22616 89 22873 22873 22873 90 23130 23130 23130 91 23387 23387 23387 92 23644 23644 23644 93 23901 23901 23901 94 24158 24158 24158 95 24415 24415 24415 96 24672 24672 24672 97 24929 24929 24929 98 25186 25186 25186 99 25443 25443 25443 100 25700 25700 25700 101 25957 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37522 147 37779 37779 37779 148 38036 38036 38036 149 38293 38293 38293 150 38550 38550 38550 151 38807 38807 38807 152 39064 39064 39064 153 39321 39321 39321 154 39578 39578 39578 155 39835 39835 39835 156 40092 40092 40092 157 40349 40349 40349 158 40606 40606 40606 159 40863 40863 40863 160 41120 41120 41120 161 41377 41377 41377 162 41634 41634 41634 163 41891 41891 41891 164 42148 42148 42148 165 42405 42405 42405 166 42662 42662 42662 167 42919 42919 42919 168 43176 43176 43176 169 43433 43433 43433 170 43690 43690 43690 171 43947 43947 43947 172 44204 44204 44204 173 44461 44461 44461 174 44718 44718 44718 175 44975 44975 44975 176 45232 45232 45232 177 45489 45489 45489 178 45746 45746 45746 179 46003 46003 46003 180 46260 46260 46260 181 46517 46517 46517 182 46774 46774 46774 183 47031 47031 47031 184 47288 47288 47288 185 47545 47545 47545 186 47802 47802 47802 187 48059 48059 48059 188 48316 48316 48316 189 48573 48573 48573 190 48830 48830 48830 191 49087 49087 49087 192 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60909 60909 238 61166 61166 61166 239 61423 61423 61423 240 61680 61680 61680 241 61937 61937 61937 242 62194 62194 62194 243 62451 62451 62451 244 62708 62708 62708 245 62965 62965 62965 246 63222 63222 63222 247 63479 63479 63479 248 63736 63736 63736 249 63993 63993 63993 250 64250 64250 64250 251 64507 64507 64507 252 64764 64764 64764 253 65021 65021 65021 254 65278 65278 65278 255 65535 65535 65535 Last edited by cyberbeing; 25th August 2011 at 07:39. |
25th August 2011, 08:33 | #73 | Link | |
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I don't know how Windows (or rather, the graphics card) translates a 16-bit ramp down to an 8-bit display device. I'll see if I can find out whether 65535 or 65280 is used for maximum white (255 signal). In a somewhat unrelated note, I've now provided a common interface for color transformations (ITransformationProvider) as well as a way to combine these together (TransformationFactory) and sequence them (PipelineTransformer). This allows a developer to create and arrange parameterized transformation construct, then “compute” a single 64bit->64bit function using .GetTransformer(), that can be re-used to look up a bunch of values. For example, if I want to create an 8 bit -> 16 bit grayscale 3dlut with attached calibration data, I can do this: Code:
new TransformationFactory( PulldownTransformer(8, Range.Full), GrayscaleTransformer(Recommendation.BT709), CalibrationTransformer(CalFile.FromFile("somecal.txt")), PullupTransformer(16, Range.Full) ).GetTransformer(); Edit: I'll just assume ArgyllCMS, i1Profiler, basICColor and ColorEyes know what they're doing when they mean linear = linear and use the same.
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Forget about my old .3dlut stuff, just use mpv if you want accurate color management Last edited by nand chan; 25th August 2011 at 08:41. |
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25th August 2011, 08:53 | #74 | Link |
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Running 'dispclut.exe --reset' results in an 8-bit ramp similar to hitting the 'Reset' button in Calibration Tester, Windows built-in lut loader, or using RivaTuner to forcibly reload your GPU driver.
If you run 'dispwin.exe -c' from the ArgyllCMS package, it loads the 16-bit ramp (as seen with Calibration Tester). All other Calibration applications do the same, loading a 16-bit linear ramp pre-calibration. Other other hand, if I run 'dispclut.exe --load' pointing to an exported 16-bit ramp, it does load the 16-bit ramp correctly. dispclut.exe --reset = 8-bit ramp dispclut.exe --load = 16-bit ramp I would conclude that the 8-but ramp is the Windows default, and 16-bit ramps need to be specially loaded. What differs between dispclut.exe --reset and --load? |
25th August 2011, 09:07 | #75 | Link | |
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The cause for the difference in results you are seeing is two different generation methods: The “8-bit” ramp: output = input << 8 Results in eg. 1010 1010 0000 0000 The “linear” ramp: output = (input << 8) + input Results in eg. 1010 1010 1010 1010 In both cases, a fresh gamma ramp is being created and then loaded. There's no such thing as a “windows default” gamma ramp.
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25th August 2011, 09:38 | #76 | Link |
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Good to know, but could explain it in a non-technical way?
It's always been a mystery to me why the "8-bit" ramp happens on Windows, yet lut loaders somehow are able to bypass this and load a 16-bit CLUT. Why was --reset originally doing output = input << 8? 16-bit input=output CLUT loaded, but Windows (?) shifts it to 8-bit? Why was --load doing output = (input << 8) + input 16-bit input=output CLUT loaded, Windows (?) shifts it to 8-bit, then a 16-bit input!=output linear ramp is loaded yet it sticks? I don't understand the + input part. |
25th August 2011, 09:49 | #77 | Link | |
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It was previously “input << 8” because that's what I previously wrote in my ResetGammaRamp() code. Some tools simply use the different logic. They're both loaded the same way (as 16 bit), and they stay that way once loaded. Note: This is not entirely true, Windows does clamp the LUTs a bit to make sure they're “proper” gamma ramps. You can't do things like inverting the colors or drastically reducing one channel because it will fail windows' sanity check. But other than that, Windows should not modify it (or especially the bit-depth). -- load was doing nothing, it was simply loading the information from a file.
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25th August 2011, 10:20 | #78 | Link |
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If I'm understanding you correctly, --reset was loading the exact 16-bit ramp CLUT you had it coded to use:
Code:
#GammaRamp 0 0 0 0 1 256 256 256 2 512 512 512 3 768 768 768 4 1024 1024 1024 ... It makes me wonder if Code:
#GammaRamp 0 0 0 0 1 256 256 256 2 512 512 512 3 768 768 768 4 1024 1024 1024 ... Code:
#GammaRamp 0 0 0 0 1 257 257 257 2 514 514 514 3 771 771 771 4 1028 1028 1028 ... |
25th August 2011, 10:40 | #79 | Link | |
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There's probably no difference between the two because I'm guessing that windows just right shifts the values 8 places when on an 8-bit display device. It will probably only make a difference for 10-bit and higher devices. Can you detect any visible change when switching between the two?
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3dlut, argyllcms, color management, icc, madvr, ti3, ycms |
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