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Old 1st December 2021, 11:55   #62441  |  Link
Stonga
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I am not sure now. Maybe they changed the name?
I believe they're the same. If it doesn't show in SDR content and only in HDR mode, they should be the same. Don't take my word for it though.

I think the LG C1 actually does a good job with Tone Mapping in HDR10. Not so much with Dolby Vision. The "AI picture" also helps with the highlights in HDR. People should experiment more with it rather than just turning it off from the start. Not to be confused with "AI Brightness" and "AI Genre selection"

Last edited by Stonga; 1st December 2021 at 11:59.
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Old 6th December 2021, 00:14   #62442  |  Link
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Does that mouse use the "Options" software? I have this software with my K830 and my MX Master, and it causes presentation glitches when it displays on-screen messages for Caps Lock or Battery Low, but I've never seen do it every x seconds. Try disabling the "battery low" reporting to see if maybe that's the cause. Or report it to Logitech (good luck, their support for bug reports is horrible). Downgrading the mouse software to an older version is also something to try, you never know.
I downloaded the Logitech Options software the other day and noticed its GUI contains embedded video which triggers LAV Filters to run in the system tray. I'd imagine it has something to do with that -- perhaps LAV is having to filter multiple streams at once.

I had a similar issue with Firefox and YouTube where I can only play a maximum of one video at a time otherwise I can get a few dropped frames every now and then regardless of CPU usage. Even if one of the videos is just a static image with music playing in the background, it still causes some dropped frames with the playback of the video in the active tab.

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MadVR feature request: could we please get a hotkey added to the MadVR hotkeys for "toggle image enhancements on/off". This would be useful for media files which are a little on the soft side and I'd like to add a little sharpening to without having to dig through menus and then remember to turn it off afterwards.

Even better: could we have some functionality where we can place a video settings configuration file inside the folder containing our videos, which MadVR could use only when playing videos inside that folder? eg. suppose you have a whole season of videos which you want to add some sharpening to, then the user doesn't have to remember to toggle it on/off at the beginning of every video.

edit: just saw the tips.txt file which explains how to add tags to media files to automatically apply settings... it seems this may be possible with the [profile=] tag. But.. I've noticed an issue where the enhancements shaders aren't getting applied properly in full screen mode. Specifically, they are applied, but very weakly compared to windowed mode. So weakly that even at max values there is only a slight change in image. In both cases image is downscaled since the source res is higher than my display res (768p) so it's not a pre/post resize thing cause it's being downscaled in both windowed and full screen.

edit2: I'm now thinking it is a pre/post resize thing as I can't explain it any other way. Basically in windowed mode the MadVR enhancements seem to get applied pre-resize, while in full screen mode they are applied post-resize (which makes the enhancements extremely weak and pretty much unusable).

edit3: so I guess this feature request is for a checkbox on the image enhancements page to toggle between applying the enhancements pre/post resize.

edit4: I also observe the anti ringing and anti bloating filters have a much stronger effect when in full screen mode, which is suppressing the sharpening by a huge amount. With those 2 disabled, the result I observe is consistent with full screen mode getting the sharpening filters post-resize and windowed mode getting them pre-resize. Although I'm still not 100% sure if that is the explanation.

Last edited by flossy_cake; 6th December 2021 at 02:00.
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Old 6th December 2021, 03:03   #62443  |  Link
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edit2: I'm now thinking it is a pre/post resize thing as I can't explain it any other way. Basically in windowed mode the MadVR enhancements seem to get applied pre-resize, while in full screen mode they are applied post-resize (which makes the enhancements extremely weak and pretty much unusable).
I'm able to trigger the pre/post resize behaviour by zooming the image in with the numpad 1 and 9 keys in MPC-HC. The threshold appears to be at 1.2 zoom level.

i.e at 1.0 - 1.19 zoom, MadVRs image enhancements shaders appear to be applied pre-resize, while at 1.21+ zoom it appears post-resize (and thus much weaker):

1.0 zoom (image enhancements sharpening enabled to very high values for visibility)


1.19 zoom (no visible change in sharpening compared to 1.0 zoom)


1.21 zoom (the sharpening is now much weaker, and is the same as what appears in full screen mode with zoom 1.0)


However this doesn't appear to be MadVR's fault at all, since the same thing occurs when applying sharpening enhancements through MPC-HC's own shaders dialog.

Therefore I believe MPC-HC may implementing a global rule, something like: if image is scaled by a factor > 1.2x, then apply shaders post-resize, else pre-resize.

I wish to disable this behaviour so that I can control exactly when the shaders are applied at all times.

I have seen MPC-HC's own pre/post resize setting, however that does not change the outcome with respect to the 1.2x threshold.

Last edited by flossy_cake; 6th December 2021 at 03:10.
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Old 6th December 2021, 03:26   #62444  |  Link
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However this doesn't appear to be MadVR's fault at all, since the same thing occurs when applying sharpening enhancements through MPC-HC's own shaders dialog.

Nope, I was wrong. Changing the renderer to something other than MadVR solves the issue.

Therefore it is MadVR that is implementing the pre/post resize scaling rule with respect to shaders.

Please can we have an option in MadVR to globally lock the application of shaders to pre/post resize so that we can get consistent results.
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Old 6th December 2021, 03:54   #62445  |  Link
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Here is the debug osd when the issue occurs (animated png)



The issue seems to occur when the scaling switches from "luma downscaling" to "image downscaling" (red arrow next to Picard's shoulder) which occurs when scaling crosses the 1.2x threshold (red arrow at bottom).

I have tried changing the scaling algorithm in MadVR settings without success.

Last edited by flossy_cake; 6th December 2021 at 04:00.
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Old 6th December 2021, 05:50   #62446  |  Link
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I have some 90s sitcoms that have a slight aspect ratio error in the horizontal direction. Basically the frame is slightly stretched horizontally by maybe 2% or something, but it's just enough to notice and make actors faces look slightly unfamiliar in the uncanny valley. The geometry is just slightly off and it's easy to fix with MPC-HC's hotkeys numpad4&6 which stretch and shrink horizontally by small increments.

But this is obviously a pain to do manually after opening every media file so I'm trying to script it with MadVR. It seems MadVR does allow applying a profile to all episodes in a folder by adding [profile=name] to the parent folder name, but it doesn't seem to support a way to do the aspect adjustment inside a profile -- or does it?
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Old 6th December 2021, 15:46   #62447  |  Link
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Hi, MADVR development is pretty much dead fella, you wont see any feature updates we'll be lucky to even get any bug fixes at this point. Assume the worst and look for workarounds.
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Old 6th December 2021, 18:24   #62448  |  Link
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Yea, at this point if it's not HDR related, it's not getting changed any time soon if ever. The rumor is the Windows 11 issues might get fixed in the coming months but that's about it. Anything outside of HDR tone mapping is unlikely to get touched.
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Old 6th December 2021, 19:35   #62449  |  Link
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I think he should address the forum at this point. Given how development has been in the past and how it's continuing at this point (actively) and the time that's progressed without any real communication I feel its bordering on disrespectful.

Last edited by ryrynz; 6th December 2021 at 19:38.
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Old 6th December 2021, 21:34   #62450  |  Link
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i'm going to post the question on the tone mapping column to see what happens, he can only ignore it I guess.
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Old 6th December 2021, 22:20   #62451  |  Link
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I don't think madshi will ever come back to doom. These days, he replies only in the Envy thread over at AVS. I hope he'll prove me wrong
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Last edited by VBB; 6th December 2021 at 22:22.
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Old 6th December 2021, 23:08   #62452  |  Link
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He only shows up in the projector thread when he needs us to test software changes that he is putting into his hardware product.
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Old 7th December 2021, 00:36   #62453  |  Link
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its not quite as one sided as that implies, everyone gets the benefit of the better tone mapping, it works well for all low brightness or non HDR TVs, displays and projectors, MADVR + a software player is still the best tone map to SDR option even if the others are catching up now.
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Old 7th December 2021, 01:49   #62454  |  Link
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Others will indeed eventually catch up. I've already switched my usage to another product at this point. Yes, madvr is still the king of quality. However, on an OLED the quality I get with a different solution is damn good and improving daily. You are correct that the madvr HDR tone mapping updates are NOT one-sided. It was the bargain madshi struck with the community but he made it very clear that it was going to be strictly HDR tone mapping focused until that feature is "done". Several years later and it's still nowhere near complete. What I mean is there are many things that can and eventually will be improved. Just realize that the reason behind it is to improve the Envy to make it more competitive. As long as you accept that and the time limited betas and spending quite a bit of time configuring each one as things change, you can keep an updated madvr HTPC going. How long this bargain lasts is anyone's guess. I have no more desire to chase down that last few percentage of image quality these days. I'm quite satisfied with a solution that simply works without fussing with it.
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Old 7th December 2021, 05:15   #62455  |  Link
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I have no more desire to chase down that last few percentage of image quality these days. I'm quite satisfied with a solution that simply works without fussing with it.
Couldn't agree more. What's the other product, if you don't mind me asking? I know you've been using your laptop and the SHIELD since your PC died
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Old 7th December 2021, 05:18   #62456  |  Link
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Still am. On the laptop I'm using jrvr. It's been making some really nice strides the last few weeks. But I don't want to derail this thread which is why I didn't originally specify.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk
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Old 7th December 2021, 05:33   #62457  |  Link
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Gotcha!
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Old 7th December 2021, 18:52   #62458  |  Link
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What does the dynamic target nits do and what’s the difference between all the contrast recovery’s ?
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Old 8th December 2021, 17:54   #62459  |  Link
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I have a question about Madvr. I have seen some guides that are many pages and i need many hours to read them and make the settings. But i don't know if it's worth the time.

I see movies on my 1080p TV (46") connected to PC, also i have a 2k pc monitor (27") but it's not as good and i rarely watch movies on this.

Can Madvr improve Pc monitor image quality? Also if i watch the same source as my TV, or Pc monitor, and i have a very good mkv quality, will i see any difference?

I have read that Madvr is good for projectors or very large TVs or for scaling methods. So, should i bother with all those advanced guides or just stick to the basics?

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Old 8th December 2021, 18:33   #62460  |  Link
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It's not a question anyone can answer for you. There's WAY too many variables. It's not just your equipment that influences the answer, it's the quality of the content, your viewing area, if your equipment is calibrated, etc, etc. The likelihood is that madvr will improve image quality in most cases. How much and whether it's noticeable by you is not something that can be answered.
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