BD Rebuilder Beta - Bug Reports Only

[jdobbs]

Originally Posted by meadrocks

version 0.32.08, batch mode, both times I tried The Passion, movie only, dvd9, it picked the wrong audio. There are 4 audio tracks, Latin/Aramaic/Hebrew 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio & 3 AC3 tracks. I selected the DTS audio track (soundtrack) but I keep getting 1 of the supporting audio tracks. I haven't tried it wo/ batch more yet. Maybe cause in my Preefs settings I have English selected it's overriding the Latin/Aramaic/Hebrew 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio selection. I'm trying a full disk BD25 backup currently.

This is the Mel Gibson film? I'll see if I can find it and give it a run.

[BlackWolf]

Originally Posted by Capsbackup

...It would be great if there were DVD+R DL RW discs available to test with!

Use a BD-RE, Thats what I do and it has the additional advantage of being faster.

[meadrocks]

Originally Posted by jdobbs

This is the Mel Gibson film? I'll see if I can find it and give it a run.

Yes, Passion of the Christ.

[drmih]

Originally Posted by thekiller

Hello
Thank you for your reply, so I can not keep everything in general because I like to keep everything, the HD tracks take too much space?

I'm not sure why but I have come across a few discs which have many audio tracks (often in the extras) which aren't used (typically 10 english audio tracks). This seems to throw the space calculation. I therefore chose the option to only one audio track, and then switch on the 'useful' ones in the main movie.

[Capsbackup]

Originally Posted by BlackWolf

Use a BD-RE, Thats what I do and it has the additional advantage of being faster.

I have never had a BD-RE disc not work, since it uses a different laser. The problem is with full backups to DVD media, whether it is DVD5 or DVD9. Testing a DVD9 size with a BD-RE will not prove that the DVD+R DL will work. Which is why I made the comment about DVD+R DL RW media, since, if it were available, this would best represent the final desired outcome.

[jdobbs]

Originally Posted by Capsbackup

I have never had a BD-RE disc not work, since it uses a different laser. The problem is with full backups to DVD media, whether it is DVD5 or DVD9. Testing a DVD9 size with a BD-RE will not prove that the DVD+R DL will work. Which is why I made the comment about DVD+R DL RW media, since, if it were available, this would best represent the final desired outcome.

Good point. For example, there are certain discs I have tested in which the exact same image work (plays audio) on a BD-RE, but doesn't on a BD-9... I still don't know why, but I would assume the firmware follows a different path when it sees the source as DVD/AVCHD media.

[e143slime8]

Another movie I've run into that will not play once burned onto 25G BD-r is Red Cliff parts 1 or 2. Neither movie, once burned onto media, will not play beyond the surface menu. Plays extras but will not play the movie, gets hung up with black screen and then freezes.

This makes Wizard of Oz, Bourne Supremacy series (all 3 of the burns) and now Red Cliff parts 1 and 2. Not sure what the common thread between these movies are. Burns are all full backups, no fancy editing. Latest SlySoft used in each case.

Attempting to play on Panasonic BD60. Only thing I haven't tried is playing these on a different player.

Again, I've so far, seen no response to my posts so any help here would be appreciated. In all cases, there were no burn error messages showing either.

TIA

[BlackWolf]

Originally Posted by Capsbackup

I have never had a BD-RE disc not work, since it uses a different laser. The problem is with full backups to DVD media, whether it is DVD5 or DVD9. Testing a DVD9 size with a BD-RE will not prove that the DVD+R DL will work. Which is why I made the comment about DVD+R DL RW media, since, if it were available, this would best represent the final desired outcome.

Thanks for the info! I will be sure to take that into account in future burns. I have used BD-RE's to eliminate some hard cases where the burns didn't work on some Verbatim DL+R's (Singapore), i.e. it wasn't disc quality - That lesson cost me 1 buck each. The BD-RE's burned with the same image had the same problems. When a new version of Rebuilder came out I would try it again and burn to a BD-RE first, if it didn't play I put it aside again. When the BD-RE finally worked, I burned the DVD DL+R and haven't had any problems. They were movie-only burns though.

@jdobbs: FFDSHOW r3326 has cured many almost all of these problems. I have a I7 system with Windows 7 x64, (not overclocked) where I would get a message that x264 had stopped working, but a pop-up message revealed that the error was not x264, but had occurred earlier. That seems to be fixed now. Thanks for your nice program!

Now when I have the time I will try to solve the lack of sound on "The Last Emperor - Criterion Collection [Blu-ray] (1987)" movie-only build.

[drmih]

Originally Posted by BlackWolf

Now when I have the time I will try to solve the lack of sound on "The Last Emperor - Criterion Collection [Blu-ray] (1987)" movie-only build.

I also reported this but couldn't find any logical reason - I just did it to a bd-re and left the audio untouched to solve the issue.

[jdobbs]

Originally Posted by e143slime8

Another movie I've run into that will not play once burned onto 25G BD-r is Red Cliff parts 1 or 2. Neither movie, once burned onto media, will not play beyond the surface menu. Plays extras but will not play the movie, gets hung up with black screen and then freezes.

This makes Wizard of Oz, Bourne Supremacy series (all 3 of the burns) and now Red Cliff parts 1 and 2. Not sure what the common thread between these movies are. Burns are all full backups, no fancy editing. Latest SlySoft used in each case.

Attempting to play on Panasonic BD60. Only thing I haven't tried is playing these on a different player.

Again, I've so far, seen no response to my posts so any help here would be appreciated. In all cases, there were no burn error messages showing either.

TIA

I can tell you that I've done "The Wizard of Oz" in both movie-only and full backup with no issues on my Sony standalone.

[colinhunt]

This is somewhat off-topic; my apologies. I did some testing last night and thought this report might be of some use to someone.

Despite what I wrote earlier, I couldn't wait for jdobb's official approval of new tools. So, I installed ffdshow 3342 and Jeeb's 32-bit x264.exe r1510 with official NAL-HRD support onto my overclocked 64-bit W7 Ultimate.

As the first test I chose Madonna's Sticky and Sweet BD. It's a BD50, with 8GBs of extras and a 35GB main movie. Video is originally AVC 1080i 29.97fps (Mediainfo says it's MBAFF). As I've had some issues with 1080i AVC in the past I figured this would be a good disc to test the new set-up. I chose to encode Main Movie only, without the stereo PCM track while keeping the 5.1ch DTS-HD MA audio.

A quick check of ffdshow's video decoder configuration showed that by default ffdshow 3342 decodes AVC using ffmpeg-mt which is actually an experimental multithreading libavcodec. I left the setting as-is, just to see what happens.

To make matters more interesting, I decided to use parameters from shon3i's post on page 375. I replaced "placebo" with "slow", however, and added the following into bdrebuilder.ini:

TWEAK_PASS_TWO=--preset slow --tune film --level 4.1 --ref 4 --keyint 24 --weightp 0 --min-keyint 2 --vbv-maxrate 14745 --vbv-bufsize 14745 --slices 4 --aud --nal-hrd vbr --sar 1:1 --colorprim "bt709" --transfer "bt709" --colormatrix "bt709" --b-pyramid strict

Once the process was finished, I checked LASTCMD.TXT; this is what parameters were used for pass2:

--preset slow --ref 4 --b-adapt 1 --b-pyramid strict --weightp 0 --qpmin=0 --bitrate 19267 --level 4.1 --sar 1:1 --aud --nal-hrd vbr --pic-struct --vbv-bufsize 30000 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 1 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-maxrate 35000 --interlaced --threads auto --slices 4 --thread-input --preset slow --tune film --weightp 0 --sar 1:1 --colorprim "bt709" --transfer "bt709" --colormatrix "bt709" --b-pyramid strict --stats "E:\ENCODES\WORKFILES\VID_00000.AVS.264.stats" --pass 2 --output "E:\ENCODES\WORKFILES\VID_00000.AVS.264"

Some parameters are listed twice, i.e. my additions contained some parameters BD-RD had already set on its own. If a parameter is listed twice, and the second instance has a different value from the first, which value would actually be used?

Parameter "--tune film" was probably overkill. It sure as heck slowed 2nd pass down; it took 9 hours while using BD-RB's regular "Very slow" settings chews through a 2-hour movie in less than 5 hours.

Results
I've just played the resulting encode from HDD and it works perfectly. I'll burn the data on a BD-RE next and will test it on a variety of stand-alones.

Finally, an apology to jdobbs. I know you're not too keen on folks running encodes on non-approved tools, but I wasn't going to bitch and moan about BD-RB if the test turned out unsuccessful. I hope me running a test like this perhaps saves you a bit of time at some point.

[jdobbs]

Finally, an apology to jdobbs. I know you're not too keen on folks running encodes on non-approved tools, but I wasn't going to bitch and moan about BD-RB if the test turned out unsuccessful. I hope me running a test like this perhaps saves you a bit of time at some point.

Ugghh. My bigger concern is that people will start trying this themselves and (as is usually the case) forget to mention their "tweaking" when they tell everybody my program sucks because they're creating coasters. I can see several possible problems, example: You'll note that the settings associated with a preset include some things that are not BD compliant. So when you change it with a tweak -- you may also be making your output FUBAR by overriding some of the essential settings made by BD-RB.

So I repeat to all: If you decide to move away from the standard tools -- do so at your own risk. BD-RB outputs a compliant stream -- please leave it alone. Same for FFDSHOW versions. I don't know how many times I have said that -- but I still get about half of my bug reports from wrong versions because people are obsessed with changing versions for no reason except change itself. If I start running into headaches, the "tweak" hidden option is going to disappear quicker than a prom dress after a beer. I may also add code to make BD-RB refuse to run with untested versions of FFDSHOW and HAALI.

[Capsbackup]

Originally Posted by jdobbs

Ugghh.disappear quicker than a prom dress after a beer.

In light of prom season, lets hope this doesn't happen to your daughter!

There have been only a few "coasters" for me with BD-RB, with it actually working properly, but just no audio playing back on my standalone.
If I used my PC for playback, then it would be zero coasters from BD-RB.

[colinhunt]

Originally Posted by jdobbs

Ugghh. My bigger concern is that people will start trying this themselves and (as is usually the case) forget to mention their "tweaking" when they tell everybody my program sucks because they're creating coasters. I can see several possible problems, example: You'll note that the settings associated with a preset include some things that are not BD compliant.

A bit of clarification needed here. Are you saying the parameters I used included things that are not BD compliant? Which ones, if I may ask? Would it be OK to use "--tune film" only as a tweak?

So when you change it with a tweak -- you may also be making your output FUBAR.

Perfectly understood.

I still get about half of my bug reports from wrong versions because people are obsessed with changing versions for no reason except change itself.

Caused by the classic "a newer version is always better" school of thinking, very rarely countered by the also-classic "don't fix what ain't broken".

If you decide to move away from the standard tools -- do so at your own risk.

Which is exactly what I did. If the output from my test had came out as total rubbish, I wouldn't have said anything. Instead, I would have gone back to standard tools and left it at that. Regardless, I'm happy to see that all my "bent on breaking compatibility" tweaks resulted in a compliant output; the BD-RE is right now playing on a Philips BDP9100 without problems.

[jdobbs]

Originally Posted by colinhunt

A bit of clarification needed here. Are you saying the parameters I used included things that are not BD compliant? Which ones, if I may ask? Would it be OK to use "--tune film" only as a tweak?


Perfectly understood.


Which is exactly what I did. If the output from my test had came out as total rubbish, I wouldn't have said anything. Instead, I would have gone back to standard tools and left it at that. Regardless, I'm happy to see that all my "bent on breaking compatibility" tweaks resulted in a compliant output; the BD-RE is right now playing on a Philips BDP9100 without problems.

That's not the point -- it may run on your system and be complete rubbish on another. The only way to be sure isn't to run it on one -- but to make the output meet the standard. I can run all kinds of non-standard crap on my Sony -- but that doesn't mean I will add it to the command line.

I'd have to ask Dark Shikari to be sure -- but I think when you used the "--preset slow", you've reset the parameters to match what comes with that preset. That might override several of the switches that are there specifically for bd compliance.

You've convinced me. The "tweak" command is going away in the next release. Otherwise I will spend the rest of my development time on BD-RB having to explain over-and-over why "breaking the standard" isn't a good thing. I knew I shouldn't have added it in the first place.

I'm not trying to be a jerk -- I'm just trying to save myself and a lot of other people considerable headaches.

[colinhunt]

Another donation made to alleviate the headache caused

[jdobbs]

Originally Posted by Capsbackup

In light of prom season, lets hope this doesn't happen to your daughter!

There have been only a few "coasters" for me with BD-RB, with it actually working properly, but just no audio playing back on my standalone.
If I used my PC for playback, then it would be zero coasters from BD-RB.

I only have boys.

That audio issue with a few BD-5/9 full backup discs is something I wish I could find... the really confusing part is the fact that the same output works if written to BD-RE. Curious.

[colinhunt]

Originally Posted by jdobbs

That's not the point -- it may run on your system and be complete rubbish on another.

Which is why I was planning on testing the disc on 10 different stand-alones. No point now, I guess.

I'd have to ask Dark Shikari to be sure -- but I think when you used the "--preset slow", you've reset the parameters to match what comes with that preset. That might override several of the switches that are there specifically for bd compliance.

So the first instance of "--preset slow", put there by BD-RB, sets some parameters that are then tuned by the rest of the parameters set by BD-RB... and having another instance of "--preset slow" later in the command line resets those parameters to non-BD-RB values?

"--tune film" sets deblock to -1:-1 and psy-trellis to 0.15, and nothing else, apparently.

You've convinced me. The "tweak" command is going away in the next release. Otherwise I will spend the rest of my development time on BD-RB having to explain over-and-over why "breaking the standard" isn't a good thing.

Actually, the initial idea for this test came from reading about x264 r1510 with official NAL-HRD. It's supposed to enable full BD compliancy, which is what I've been waiting for. Aim of the test was never to break the standard, quite the contrary. I simply did not realise that .ini tweaks would get added a second time into the command line.

[Capsbackup]

Originally Posted by jdobbs

I only have boys.

That audio issue with a few BD-5/9 full backup discs is something I wish I could find... the really confusing part is the fact that the same output works if written to BD-RE. Curious.

Girls here!
Yes it would be nice to uncover that mystery, especially since I just bought two 25 pack spindles of DVD+R DL, because after 4-5 successful full movie backups to BD-9, I got excited.
Oh well, maybe a fix will be found, and if not I will find some use. Until then, movie only to BD5/9 or BD-25 for full backups.

[jdobbs]

Actually, the initial idea for this test came from reading about x264 r1510 with official NAL-HRD. It's supposed to enable full BD compliancy, which is what I've been waiting for. Aim of the test was never to break the standard, quite the contrary. I simply did not realise that .ini tweaks would get added a second time into the command line.

Please don't take my comments wrong, I'm not trying to come across as a "know-it-all" or bully -- but I just keep running into the same issues over-and-over and it gets frustrating after a while.

I've decided not to remove "tweak" (yet) -- I'm just going to have to add some more commands to the "restricted" list now that the new version is out so I can prevent unintentional changes that could result in non-compliant streams.

One other note: You can't just add "bt709" via the "tweak" command -- because you may also have 720x480/576 on a blu-ray and I believe they use ITU-R BT.601/SMPTE 293M/ITU-R BT.1358.