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Old 12th January 2017, 20:25   #25481  |  Link
jdobbs
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Originally Posted by brunchto View Post
There is a SWAP_3D hidden option? I missed it 😭... I will try
Just remember that it only applies to SBS/OU.
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Old 12th January 2017, 20:26   #25482  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Nothing changed related to 3D between 0.50.19 and 0.50.20 -- so that isn't likely. As I said, if you aren't doing OU/SBS then the determination of which is right/left is in the MPLS file. It isn't something that BD-RB manipulates. I can check and see if there might be something at play in the FRIM command line -- but it is unlikely.
Something's wonky for sure, since the views are correct on the original discs. I'm re-doing a couple of titles on .19 now that were previously done on .20 to see if output is any different views-wise.

Additional datapoints:

Did "Storks" on 0.50.19: output has swapped views.
Played original on same player & projector in 3D: views are correct.

Checked "It Came From Outer Space" original (i.e. the one that was not re-encoded but output had swapped views regardless): views are correct.

Could this have something to do with FRIMdecoder? I'll test by running another backup of Storks, this time with FRIMdecoder set to software.

Last edited by colinhunt; 12th January 2017 at 20:56.
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Old 12th January 2017, 20:42   #25483  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Just remember that it only applies to SBS/OU.


Ahh, thats why i miss it. I convert 3d br to iso, then extract m2ts file which works on my oppo. To bad i cannot switch L/R😢 since some m2ts have swapped eyes
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Old 12th January 2017, 20:55   #25484  |  Link
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Something's wonky for sure, since the views are correct on the original discs. I'm re-doing a couple of titles on .19 now that were previously done on .20 to see if output is any different views-wise.
Are you using the version of FRIM that comes with BD-RB? There's just no changes to 3D between those versions.
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Old 12th January 2017, 21:00   #25485  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Are you using the version of FRIM that comes with BD-RB? There's just no changes to 3D between those versions.
The ones in BD-RB's Tools directory? Yes, I haven't touched those.

The only reason I mentioned .19 and .20 is that the titles I did earlier on .19 had correct views. But I've now done Storks on both .19 and .20, and both outputs had swapped views so yeah, that's not the explanation.
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Old 12th January 2017, 21:23   #25486  |  Link
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I could care less about someone's username.
So, you can care less about someone's username.
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Old 12th January 2017, 22:02   #25487  |  Link
jdobbs
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Originally Posted by colinhunt View Post
The ones in BD-RB's Tools directory? Yes, I haven't touched those.

The only reason I mentioned .19 and .20 is that the titles I did earlier on .19 had correct views. But I've now done Storks on both .19 and .20, and both outputs had swapped views so yeah, that's not the explanation.
What player are you using? It's possible that your player isn't heeding the MPLS specified left/right configuration.
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Old 12th January 2017, 22:07   #25488  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
What player are you using? It's possible that your player isn't heeding the MPLS specified left/right configuration.
It's a Pioneer stand-alone player. I don't think it's the culprit here, to be honest.

I've just finished another backup of Storks, this time with FRIMdecoder set to software instead of "automatic", and about to check whether it made a difference.

update: Nope, views swapped again.

Running one more backup, this time on a rig that does not have QSV.

Although... thinking about this logically, the issue's not in the encoding since views got swapped even when there was no need for re-encoding.

Last edited by colinhunt; 12th January 2017 at 22:36.
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Old 12th January 2017, 23:08   #25489  |  Link
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Something very odd is happening with 3D titles. I hope someone here can shed some light on it.

I used MakeMKV to create an MKV file which has a Stereo AVC video stream in it. Note that the MKV was created directly from data which played correctly on a stand-alone Blu-ray player. I played the MKV on Stereoscopic Player which is capable of reading and displaying Stereo streams muxed into an MKV container. To my surprise, the left and right views are swapped in the MKV -- just like they were in the 3D Blu-ray I created using BD-RB. But again, the views are not swapped in the original data/disc.

What the heck is going on here? Is there something in the data that "forces" applications into reading l/r configuration data incorrectly?

Last edited by colinhunt; 12th January 2017 at 23:15.
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Old 12th January 2017, 23:33   #25490  |  Link
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Originally Posted by colinhunt View Post
Something very odd is happening with 3D titles. I hope someone here can shed some light on it.

I used MakeMKV to create an MKV file which has a Stereo AVC video stream in it. Note that the MKV was created directly from data which played correctly on a stand-alone Blu-ray player. I played the MKV on Stereoscopic Player which is capable of reading and displaying Stereo streams muxed into an MKV container. To my surprise, the left and right views are swapped in the MKV -- just like they were in the 3D Blu-ray I created using BD-RB. But again, the views are not swapped in the original data/disc.

What the heck is going on here? Is there something in the data that "forces" applications into reading l/r configuration data incorrectly?
I would be almost willing to bet that the views aren't being swapped -- but that they are just different from the offset. Normally the base part of the MVC pair is the left view and the dependent portion is right. But there is a flag in the MPLS that can indicate that the base part represents the right view (called Base_view_R_flag in the AppInfoPlayList() table). More than likely the programs you are using aren't looking at that flag and always assumes it is left. BD-RB just leaves the flag as-is and and reencodes the MVC when doing a full backup.
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Last edited by jdobbs; 12th January 2017 at 23:53.
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Old 12th January 2017, 23:42   #25491  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
I would be almost willing to bet that the views aren't being swapped -- but that they are just different from the offset. Normally the base part of the MVC pair is the left picture. But there is a flag in the MPLS that can indicate that the base part represents the right view. More than likely the programs you are using aren't looking at that flag and always assumes it is left.
Forgetting MakeMKV and Stereoscopic Player for now as I used them this one time to test a theory, the only program involved in addition to BD-RB is the decrypter which is also used for making the .iso file. That .iso file (the data contained within it, to be precise) plays perfectly on a stand-alone player, no problem with L/R views being swapped.

But after that very same data in that .iso file is processed by BD-RB (or MakeMKV, it seems), the output suffers from swapped views. Even when the 3D video has not been re-encoded.

Can you think of any explanation for why that is happening? Could it be that whatever piece of code is in charge of reading the flag you mentioned is not working properly?

Theory: the 3D titles that don't suffer from swapped views after processing have the base part as the left view. The 3D titles that suffer from swapped views have right view as the base part, and for some reason BD-RB (and MakeMKV) are not reading -- or copying to output -- that piece of information.

Last edited by colinhunt; 12th January 2017 at 23:46.
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Old 12th January 2017, 23:56   #25492  |  Link
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It's possible that BD-RB isn't setting that flag when doing a movie-only backup (for some reason I was thinking you were doing a full backup). I'll do some checking. In the meantime, if you have a hex editor you can look at the byte at offset 0x38 in the MPLS file of the output. If bit 4 (masked by 0x10) isn't set -- it probably should be. If it isn't set, try setting it, burn to a BD-RW, and that should fix it.
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Old 13th January 2017, 00:03   #25493  |  Link
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(for some reason I was thinking you were doing a full backup).
I would love to do a full backup but BD-RB outputs it into a BDMV directory structure, even when I have the "output to iso" set to 1.

Quote:
In the meantime, if you have a hex editor you can look at the byte at offset 0x38 in the MPLS file of the output. If bit 4 (masked by 0x10) isn't set -- it probably should be. If it isn't set, try setting it, burn to a BD-RW, and that should fix it.
That was all gobbledygook to me, but I'll look into it, thanks. Perhaps an old dog can learn new tricks after all.
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Old 13th January 2017, 01:49   #25494  |  Link
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So, you can care less about someone's username.
NO! Don't wake him up again...

When will I learn...
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Old 13th January 2017, 03:10   #25495  |  Link
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I would love to do a full backup but BD-RB outputs it into a BDMV directory structure, even when I have the "output to iso" set to 1.


That was all gobbledygook to me, but I'll look into it, thanks. Perhaps an old dog can learn new tricks after all.
You can't do full backup to ISO format (keeping the SSIF folder) because TSMUXER can't support it. The only way I could do that would be to create the ISO myself -- and I think that's beyond the scope of what I want BD-RB to do.
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Old 13th January 2017, 03:13   #25496  |  Link
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I would love to do a full backup but BD-RB outputs it into a BDMV directory structure, even when I have the "output to iso" set to 1.


That was all gobbledygook to me, but I'll look into it, thanks. Perhaps an old dog can learn new tricks after all.
If you send me the original MPLS file for the main feature and the new one created for movie-only I can at least see whether that is the issue.

Thinking about it, though, that may be the issue. I can't modify an MPLS that has been output to ISO...
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Old 13th January 2017, 03:39   #25497  |  Link
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If you send me the original MPLS file for the main feature and the new one created for movie-only I can at least see whether that is the issue.

Thinking about it, though, that may be the issue. I can't modify an MPLS that has been output to ISO...
Never mind. There is an option available in TSMUXER to set the base to right-eye, and I'm not setting it for movie-only. I'm surprised I haven't gotten this reported before -- but I think the vast majority of discs default to having the left eye in the base stream.

I'm pretty sure that is the issue you're experiencing. I'll get a fix in for the next release. It might be a few days, though, as I want to also address Sharc's issue in that release as well.
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Old 13th January 2017, 06:39   #25498  |  Link
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how to retain the truehd 7.1 track

hi

i have two mkv movie files that have a truehd 7.1 track. according to the listing on blu-ray.com these also have a dolby atmos track. i don't see that listing in my mediainfo app. i use bdrebuilder cause the two mkvs have a resolution of 1920 and a number close to 1080. for example 804. id like to burn these for more convenience. these are color regraded copies so i'd like to archive these. the size of both of these mkvs look like they can be put on bd25's. everytime i use bdrebuilder using these instructions i got from a friend who does the same thing the resulting bd folder's movie file has only dolby ac3 5.1. i can play the original mkv in truehd 7.1 so i don't think there's a incompatibility issue. here are my settings:

custom target size: 24200mb
high priority
highest very slow
one pass ABR encoding



i thought i read on the faq that if you set your settings to encode to bd50 it will retain the truehd 7.1. i tried that last night and i woke up to find that it still only had the ac3 5.1 track.

here's the log file for when i tried to make a bd50. unfortunately i can't find a log file for when i last tried to make a bd25 for this mkv. but if you need one lemme know. thanks in advance!!!
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Old 13th January 2017, 07:21   #25499  |  Link
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hi

i have two mkv movie files that have a truehd 7.1 track. according to the listing on blu-ray.com these also have a dolby atmos track. i don't see that listing in my mediainfo app. i use bdrebuilder cause the two mkvs have a resolution of 1920 and a number close to 1080. for example 804. id like to burn these for more convenience. these are color regraded copies so i'd like to archive these. the size of both of these mkvs look like they can be put on bd25's. everytime i use bdrebuilder using these instructions i got from a friend who does the same thing the resulting bd folder's movie file has only dolby ac3 5.1. i can play the original mkv in truehd 7.1 so i don't think there's a incompatibility issue. here are my settings:

custom target size: 24200mb
high priority
highest very slow
one pass ABR encoding



i thought i read on the faq that if you set your settings to encode to bd50 it will retain the truehd 7.1. i tried that last night and i woke up to find that it still only had the ac3 5.1 track.

here's the log file for when i tried to make a bd50. unfortunately i can't find a log file for when i last tried to make a bd25 for this mkv. but if you need one lemme know. thanks in advance!!!
Well, 2 things I notice right away:

1. when a Blu-ray is rendered into an MKV file and also happens to have a TrueHD audio track, the AC3 core is ALWAYS ripped out. What that means is that when you then go from the MKV back to a playable Blu-ray or a BDMV folder, all that remains is just an AC3 @640 track. This took me a while to learn when I kept encountering all these TrueHD audio tracks, and apparently like you, I also like to keep the full HD audio if possible.

The ONLY way that I know to go from MKV to Blu-ray and retain the full TrueHD audio is to use a free program called eac3to. I use the GUI or interface with it called UsEac3to. When you drop the full MKV into the interface, in the dropdown menu where you 'read' the existing tracks, you choose the 'TRUE' track. Next to it in the dropdown menu you then choose the 'TRUE + AC3' option, which is the form in which you will be rendering it. THAT way, the resulting audio track will have the full TrueHD audio WITH the AC3 core put back in. NOW, you can then use this restored track and drop it in another free program TSMuxer (which BDRB uses in reconstructing the BDMV folder) and now it WILL keep the full HD audio.

Also, 2. When you have an illegal AR like 1920x800 (that means that the normal black bars in the full Blu-ray have been cropped out) remember that your Blu-ray player may NOT play the picture properly. My OPPO Blu-ray player will NOT if the AR (aspect ratio) is not a fully legal 1920x1080. Otherwise, what it does is STRETCH the picture to fill the screen since the black bars that would normally border the picture are gone. So, with my OPPO I absolutely CANNOT do that. I CAN get away with it IF the AR is 1.85:1 by changing the playback on my player to render the screen in a 4x3 Letterboxed mode. But, that does NOT work with the much more common 2.35:1 and 2.40:1 AR seen in most movies.

That is the trouble that I run into a LOT when I, uh, 'come across' certain MKV files where the black bars have been stripped out. In those cases I have 2 choices. 1) I can give up the full HD audio (because my OPPO ONLY plays HD audio within BDMV folders, NOT in MKV files) and just play the MKV's on my player as is. Or 2) I can re-encode the video and put the black bars back in using either BDRB or more simply the CMD line using x264. But, unfortunately, that means an additional re-encoding which isn't ideal. I HAVE to do one or the other if I want to be able to play the movie and have it look right.

I hope that that made some sense and I hope that it helps...
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Old 13th January 2017, 09:39   #25500  |  Link
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Well, 2 things I notice right away:

1. when a Blu-ray is rendered into an MKV file and also happens to have a TrueHD audio track, the AC3 core is ALWAYS ripped out. What that means is that when you then go from the MKV back to a playable Blu-ray or a BDMV folder, all that remains is just an AC3 @640 track. This took me a while to learn when I kept encountering all these TrueHD audio tracks, and apparently like you, I also like to keep the full HD audio if possible.
You can't rip out the AC3 core and have AC3 5.1 to put back into a Blu-ray. If you rip out the AC3 core, you are left with only the TrueHD portion. While doing some digging, I found an old posting:
Quote:
There are 2 different TrueHD streams:

(1) TrueHD+AC3. This is a mixed format. There are both (alternating) TrueHD and AC3 frames in the stream.

(2) TrueHD. This stream only contains TrueHD frames and no AC3 frames.

All Blu-Ray TrueHD streams are (1). All HD DVD TrueHD streams are (2). eac3to can convert between both stream types. Converting from (1) to (2) is very easy: The AC3 frames are simply removed. Converting from (2) to (1) is more difficult: The TrueHD stream must be decoded and reencoded to AC3 and then the AC3 frames must be injected into the TrueHD stream in a specific way.

When muxing to MKV, the AC3 frames are usually removed, so MKV TrueHD streams are usually type (2).

There's no special metadata which tells anyone how to convert TrueHD to AC3, AFAIK.
So, if you have a MKV file that contains only AC3, because the TrueHD was thrown away, there is no way to get back the TrueHD.

As for mkvmerge's handling of TrueHD+AC3, I found the following:
Quote:
The Matroska specs state that one track must only contain data for one codec. Therefore mkvmerge cannot keep the AC-3 interleaved with the TrueHD part in a single track.

Starting with release 7.7.0, mkvmerge's solution is to present the AC-3 core as an additional track. This applies to TrueHD tracks read from any source file, be it from e.g. a raw TrueHD file, from a Matroska file or an MPEG transport stream. Before release 7.6.0, mkvmerge was silently discarding the AC-3 core.
Now comes the tricky part. If you've created a MKV file with a newer mkvmerge, so that you have both audio tracks, getting it back into the required Blu-ray spec is going to be tough. Why? Because the two audio tracks must be interleaved in a very special way. The first quote seems to imply that eac3to can be used to interleave the two streams into a single TrueHD+AC3 for Blu-ray use. I've never tried it.

Last edited by MrVideo; 13th January 2017 at 09:41.
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