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Old 17th October 2018, 20:59   #53341  |  Link
Alexkral
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Hi Madshi,

I'm sorry to be late for your request of feedback about NNEDI3, like many others I don't update madVR very often (I'm still using 0.92.2 now), neither read this thread, but I think there was a good reason to keep it. Maybe nobody else noticed, but it is/was the only doubling algorithm capable of independent width or height doubling. I encode my BD3Ds to 1920 x 2160 OU for viewing on my FPR UHD TV. This way there is no need to upscale the height, the TV just take the available lines and reorder them in a line alternative scheme. When I play these videos in fullscreen with madVR using NNEDI3 for doubling, I can see in the OSD that after chroma upscaling, luma x (or the whole image x depending on settings for chroma doubling) is upscaled with NNEDI and image y is left untouched. But if I choose super-xbr or NGU for doubling, I can see that after chroma upscaling, both image x and image y are upscaled and then image y is downscaled with the algorithm chosed.
I understand that you had reasons to remove NNEDI3 so I'm not going to ask for it back, but maybe this feature could be added to NGU. Anyway I suspect that image y doubling to 4320 and then downscaling back to 2160 should not mean a significant quality loss, but given that it is not necessary in this situation, maybe I should just forget about doubling and use one of the other upscaling algorithms.

Also, I don't understand if the new option "tone map HDR using external 3DLUT" is just for processing HDR, or for both processing HDR and converting HDR to SDR.

Last edited by Alexkral; 18th October 2018 at 05:54.
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Old 17th October 2018, 21:45   #53342  |  Link
422415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I can set RGB Full 12 bpc in 1809 and 416.34. I simply change the refresh rate first, setting it to RGB Full 8 bpc 340x2160p23, and then after I am in 23 Hz I can set 12 bpc, this lives through reboots and similar without issue. However, this is not with a custom 23 Hz mode, with a custom mode I simply cannot use >8 bit at all.
I just updated to Windows 1809 and 416.34 and it still will not switch to 12bpc. Incredibly frustrating.
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Old 17th October 2018, 22:31   #53343  |  Link
el Filou
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On my my 1050 Ti on 1080 display I have to check 'compromise on mapping accuracy' for 60p HDR content. With 24p it's fine.
Not a big deal for me as most HDR content besides demos still is 24p movies at the moment.
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Old 18th October 2018, 12:02   #53344  |  Link
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HDR looks terrible with that enabled.. Compromise on anything else..
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Old 18th October 2018, 16:18   #53345  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
On my my 1050 Ti on 1080 display I have to check 'compromise on mapping accuracy' for 60p HDR content. With 24p it's fine.
Not a big deal for me as most HDR content besides demos still is 24p movies at the moment.
If you create a profile for 4K60 with scale chroma separately checked under trade quality for performance, you should be able to enable everything again, save highlight recovery.

Last edited by Warner306; 18th October 2018 at 17:54.
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Old 18th October 2018, 16:20   #53346  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthazar2k4 View Post
Out of curiosity what is the state of madVR with an AMD Vega solution for 4K HDR material? I am looking to replace my HTPC with a Hades Canyon NUC (8809G) and want to understand what issues I might run into. I saw a post way back about madVR being unable to autoswitch HDR mode in Windows with AMD cards. Has this changed?

I am presently using a GTX960/Pentium G4600 based machine now and want to get a similar experience... just smaller.

Edit: I see that AMD now has a private HDR API that madVR will utilize. That answers that, but is there anything else that might be an issue?
It will work fine. However, the NUC is expensive and has an overpowered CPU for a HTPC. A Zotac Zbox with a GTX 1060 would be a better choice.

Last edited by Warner306; 18th October 2018 at 17:54.
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Old 18th October 2018, 18:19   #53347  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
2) Rendering is about 35ms or so at 4k 60 with tone mapping highlight recovery measurements and 65% desat.

Of note I am using D3D11 decoding not doing any copy back.

P.S. All trade quality options are disabled.
What are your rendering times when chroma upscaling is set to something like Lanczos3 and dithering set to Ordered Dithering?
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Old 19th October 2018, 00:02   #53348  |  Link
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Oh hell, that's right, I did set dithering to ordered a couple weeks ago and forgot about it. As for chroma I'd have to check and I don't know if I'll have time to test tonight. I should be able to tomorrow.
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Old 19th October 2018, 16:04   #53349  |  Link
Warner306
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Just curious. I thought the GTX 1060 was faster than that.
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Old 19th October 2018, 19:11   #53350  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
1) Rendering is hanging out around 27ms or lower average with NGU Sharp HIGH luma upscaling 1080 -> 4k 60. Chroma set to normal.

2) Rendering is about 35ms or so at 4k 60 with tone mapping highlight recovery measurements and 65% desat.

Of note I am using D3D11 decoding not doing any copy back.

P.S. All trade quality options are disabled.
So this was with ordered dithering. However, changing it to error diffusion 2 didn't seem to make much difference. I'm still kicking around 30ms for 4k 60.

Changing to laczos3 as Warner306 suggested (still with error diffusion 2) lowers it down to ~20ms.

And changing THAT to ordered dithering lowers it to ~18ms.

Hope this helps!
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Old 19th October 2018, 22:08   #53351  |  Link
Axelpowa
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Hdrpeaknit value for hdr profiles

Hi,

I'm trying to set multiple profiles in madVR under the device settings for HDR taking hdrpeaknit of a movie in account.

Like this

If (hdrpeaknit <=1000) "275" (275 would be a profile)
Else if.....
Else if....
Else...

The problem I have is that my Projector jvc x7500 switches to HDR profile as if I were sending metadata to the projector instead of staying in my sdr2020 profile.

Any way to avoid this?

Regards!
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Old 19th October 2018, 22:28   #53352  |  Link
Manni
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Are you sure you've selected pixel shader in each of your HDR profile? There shouldn't be any HDR metadata sent with pixel shader, unless you've selected the "output video in HDR" option.

Otherwise you might want to try checking the "report BT2020" box in the calibration tab if you have an nVidia GPU. Or if it's checked, try uncheking it. But it shouldn't force HDR mode in the JVCs either way.
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Last edited by Manni; 19th October 2018 at 22:30.
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Old 19th October 2018, 23:03   #53353  |  Link
Axelpowa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Are you sure you've selected pixel shader in each of your HDR profile? There shouldn't be any HDR metadata sent with pixel shader, unless you've selected the "output video in HDR" option.

Otherwise you might want to try checking the "report BT2020" box in the calibration tab if you have an nVidia GPU. Or if it's checked, try uncheking it. But it shouldn't force HDR mode in the JVCs either way.
Hi Manni,

Yes, I've checked it. Was the first thing I thought, but it is correct. I created every profile duplicating the one I use for sdr2020 pixel shader. After that I just changed the peak nits target for every profile.

Regards!
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Old 19th October 2018, 23:18   #53354  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelpowa View Post
Hi Manni,

Yes, I've checked it. Was the first thing I thought, but it is correct. I created every profile duplicating the one I use for sdr2020 pixel shader. After that I just changed the peak nits target for every profile.

Regards!
Did you check that the profile that should be enabled with your logic is indeed enabled? Otherwise it could be another profile that's selected for whatever reason.

If your sdr2020 pixel shader profile behaves correctly and you've simply copied it to create the others, then I have no idea, except checking every single option.

If you enable a copy where nothing is changed from your original profile, does it behave as the original or does it not work?

Apart from that I can't think of anything else. I have an X7000 and I use a Vertex to disable the HDR metadata anyway, so I don't have this problem.
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Last edited by Manni; 19th October 2018 at 23:21.
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Old 20th October 2018, 00:25   #53355  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
So this was with ordered dithering. However, changing it to error diffusion 2 didn't seem to make much difference. I'm still kicking around 30ms for 4k 60.

Changing to laczos3 as Warner306 suggested (still with error diffusion 2) lowers it down to ~20ms.

And changing THAT to ordered dithering lowers it to ~18ms.

Hope this helps!
So the GTX 1060 is just slightly too slow for tone mapping at 4K 60 fps. This is helpful because I am often talking to people building PCs at AVSForums, mostly for madVR. The GTX 1060 still seems like a good choice, but the GTX 1070 is required for 4K 60 fps with extra sauce.
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Old 20th October 2018, 00:49   #53356  |  Link
SamuriHL
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Yea, that would be accurate, at least paired with my 3770k. I don't know if having a faster CPU would make any difference or not. I doubt it. If you want all the bells and whistles, though, a 1070 would be a better choice. Then again, at this point I'd not buy anything but a 20x0. I suspect in the future those tensor cores will prove useful.
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Old 20th October 2018, 02:43   #53357  |  Link
Tpain145
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Hi, I want to know if a gtx 1070 ti can do the fallowing in madvr. I find it much cheaper than a gtx 1080. Can someone please try these settings and let me know the rendering times for 1080p@25,1080p@60, 720p@25,720p@60, 480p@25, 480p@60.

Scaling
1080p@25--4k
chroma upscaling== Sharp high
Image downscaling== SSIM ID Strenth 100%
scale linear light check
activate anti-ringing filter relaxed check
activate anti-bloating filter check

Image Upscaling Processing

algorighm quality: Artifact Removal:
Luma doubling: Sharp very high Reduce banding artifacts:
Luma Quadrupling: Sharp high default banding strength: Low
Chroma: Sharp high Strength during fade in and out: High

activate doubling/quadrupling
Doubling: only if scaling is 1.2x (or bigger)
Quadrupling: Only if scaling is 2.4x (or bigger)

If any (more) scaling needs to be done:
Upscaling algo: Jinc AR
Downscaling algo: SSIM ID100 AR

Upscaling refinement:

Enhance Detail 2.3
Soften edges 2
Add grain 3

SuperRes 3
Rendering: ?

1080p@60--4k Processing
Artifact Removal:
Reduce banding artifacts:
default banding strength: Low
Strength during fade in and out: High
chroma upscaling== Sharp high
Image downscaling== SSIM ID Strenth 100%
scale linear light check
activate anti-ringing filter relaxed check
activate anti-bloating filter check

Image Upscaling

algorighm quality:
Luma doubling: Sharp very high
Luma Quadrupling: Sharp high
Chroma: Sharp high

activate doubling/quadrupling
Doubling: only if scaling is 1.2x (or bigger)
Quadrupling: Only if scaling is 2.4x (or bigger)

If any (more) scaling needs to be done:
Upscaling algo: Jinc AR
Downscaling algo: SSIM ID100 AR

Upscaling refinement:

Enhance Detail 2.3
Soften edges 2
Add grain 3

SuperRes 3
Rendering: ?

720p@25--4k Processing
chroma upscaling== Anti-Alias high Artifact Removal:
Reduce banding artifacts:
Image downscaling== SSIM ID Strenth 100% default banding strength: Low
scale linear light check Strength during fade in and out: High
activate anti-ringing filter relaxed check
activate anti-bloating filter check

Image Upscaling

algorighm quality:
Luma doubling: Sharp high
Luma Quadrupling: Sharp high
Chroma: Sharp high

activate doubling/quadrupling
Doubling: only if scaling is 1.2x (or bigger)
Quadrupling: Only if scaling is 2.4x (or bigger)

If any (more) scaling needs to be done:
Upscaling algo: Jinc AR
Downscaling algo: SSIM ID100 AR

Upscaling refinement:

Enhance Detail 2.3
Soften edges 2
Add grain 3

SuperRes 3
Rendering: ?

720p@60--4k Processing
chroma upscaling== Anti-Alias high Artifact Removal:
Reduce banding artifacts:
Image downscaling== SSIM ID Strenth 100% default banding strength: Low
scale linear light check Strength during fade in and out: High
activate anti-ringing filter relaxed check
activate anti-bloating filter check

Image Upscaling

algorighm quality:
Luma doubling: Sharp high
Luma Quadrupling: Sharp high
Chroma: Sharp high

activate doubling/quadrupling
Doubling: only if scaling is 1.2x (or bigger)
Quadrupling: Only if scaling is 2.4x (or bigger)

If any (more) scaling needs to be done:
Upscaling algo: Jinc AR
Downscaling algo: SSIM ID100 AR

Upscaling refinement:

Enhance Detail 2.3
Soften edges 2
Add grain 3

SuperRes 3
Rendering: ?

480p@25--4k Processing
chroma upscaling== Anti-Alias,very high Artifact Removal:
Reduce banding artifacts:
Image downscaling== SSIM ID Strenth 100% default banding strength: Low
scale linear light check Strength during fade in and out: High
activate anti-ringing filter relaxed check
activate anti-bloating filter check Reduce compression artifacts: Check
Strength: 8, quality: High
Image Upscaling Activate only if it comes for free (as part of NGU sharp): Check

algorighm quality: Reduce random noise: Check
Luma doubling: Sharp very high Strength: 1
Luma Quadrupling: Sharp very high
Chroma: Sharp very high

activate doubling/quadrupling
Doubling: only if scaling is 1.2x (or bigger)
Quadrupling: Only if scaling is 2.4x (or bigger)

If any (more) scaling needs to be done:
Upscaling algo: Jinc AR
Downscaling algo: SSIM ID100 AR

Upscaling refinement:

Enhance Detail 2.1
Soften edges 3
Add grain 1

SuperRes 3
Rendering: ?

480p@60--4k Processing
chroma upscaling== Anti-Alias,very high Artifact Removal:
Reduce banding artifacts:
Image downscaling== SSIM ID Strength 100% default banding strength: Low
scale linear light check Strength during fade in and out: High
activate anti-ringing filter relaxed check
activate anti-bloating filter check Reduce compression artifacts: Check
Strength: 12, quality: medium
Image Upscaling Activate only if it comes for free (as part of NGU sharp): Check
Reduce random noise: Check
algorighm quality: Strength: 1
Luma doubling: Sharp very high
Luma Quadrupling: Sharp very high
Chroma: Sharp very high

activate doubling/quadrupling
Doubling: only if scaling is 1.2x (or bigger)
Quadrupling: Only if scaling is 2.4x (or bigger)

If any (more) scaling needs to be done:
Upscaling algo: Jinc AR
Downscaling algo: SSIM ID100 AR

Upscaling refinement:

Enhance Detail 1.3
Soften edges 3
Add grain 2

SuperRes 3
Rendering: ?

Last edited by Tpain145; 20th October 2018 at 02:50.
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Old 20th October 2018, 16:29   #53358  |  Link
Warner306
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@1080P24 -> 4K

Maybe, if you lowered chroma upscaling to low and got rid of SuperRes. SuperRes doesn't work well with NGU, anyways.

@1080P60 -> 4K

Not a chance if you want to use NGU very high image upscaling.

@720P24 -> 4K

Seems likely if you stick to NGU high upscaling and lower chroma upscaling to low or medium.

@720P60 -> 4K

The same settings as above could work.

@480P24 -> 4K

It would work if you lowered chroma upscaling to medium or high.

@480P60 -> 4K

You might have to lower image upscaling to NGU high.

Last edited by Warner306; 20th October 2018 at 16:35.
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Old 20th October 2018, 19:18   #53359  |  Link
Tpain145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
@1080P24 -> 4K

Maybe, if you lowered chroma upscaling to low and got rid of SuperRes. SuperRes doesn't work well with NGU, anyways.

@1080P60 -> 4K

Not a chance if you want to use NGU very high image upscaling.

@720P24 -> 4K

Seems likely if you stick to NGU high upscaling and lower chroma upscaling to low or medium.

@720P60 -> 4K

The same settings as above could work.

@480P24 -> 4K

It would work if you lowered chroma upscaling to medium or high.

@480P60 -> 4K

You might have to lower image upscaling to NGU high.
Thank for the reply.

@1080P60 -> 4K

could it work if use image upscaling to NGU high ?.
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Old 21st October 2018, 12:35   #53360  |  Link
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Question about 'Tone map HDR using pixel shaders'. Is this setting doing dynamic tone mapping, ala HDR10+?
And which value for peak nits should I use? I have a Sony X900F. Not sure which value should I put. Max nits 10% window? 100%? Real scene peak nits? sustained nits? also, should I use BT.2390?
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