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13th July 2021, 00:19 | #1 | Link |
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Updated (Grainy Source): x264 vs x265 vs NVENC H.265 vs QSV H.265 [2-pass @ 5000kbps]
Update: Please see this post for updated encoding and five screenshots per encode
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Last edited by tonemapped; 17th July 2021 at 02:27. Reason: Edited to ask users to see updated posts |
13th July 2021, 10:16 | #2 | Link |
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Screenshots should not be an issue, they are used all the time.
It would be nice to see the command line parameters for x265. The presets definitely will smooth the image.
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13th July 2021, 20:31 | #3 | Link |
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Thank you for the reply. I'll try and get about 10 different screenshots and the cli used for each one shortly. At this point, I've added QSV into the mix and it seems to produce better results at the same bitrate, which is clearly absurd!
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14th July 2021, 04:34 | #6 | Link | |
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Quote:
First stills, then watching a four minute clip on a 10 bit 4K calibrated monitor (workstation), and then on a TV from about 3m away. Last edited by tonemapped; 14th July 2021 at 04:50. |
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14th July 2021, 08:41 | #7 | Link |
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If you use x265 for any real work, you should use at least --preset slow as the base, I personally use --preset slower. Nevertheless, the source is very difficult. I wouldn't call it grain, it's more like that your source comes from a grainy original encoded at a lowish bitrate - just look at the dark flat areas near the top of the first image. What's the average bitrate of the source clip?
Also try aq-mode 1 although I'm not sure it will help with this case since you use quite a low average bitrate. Out of interest, what kind of average bitrate would you get for CRF 19 and your test 8 command line?
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14th July 2021, 15:08 | #9 | Link |
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What Boulder said: Give the encoder time for precision ! I am using at least x264 veryslow, x265 slower and can suggest that with confidence.
Seeing stills only...anyway for such content type I would call 4,5Mbps @ FHD starved for x264, wet patches coming up where HF coefficients had been dropped and LF coefficients sustain. If someone must have 4,5Mbps on that clip, 265 will try hard to impersonate grain and seems to do a bit better. test 3 and 4 are quite close for 4,5Mbps. (Parameter "tune grain" means encoder is allowed to throw in some calculation-cheap HF coefficients, not really encode whats given. Lots of Blu-ray encodes have introduced such morphing grain which often moves with Luma borders. Strange to the eye.) NVEnc just slips off my table into the mud, happy to see QSV cope better. I would just give more bitrate and move on. Only if you need to sail along that cliff of damage for educational reasons, well... I would use zopti for that.
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14th July 2021, 17:04 | #11 | Link |
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Also, I strongly recommend you don't compare with --crf, as you wind up with output that varies in both quality and size. Better to use 2-pass encoding at the same average bitrate, so you're comparing quality at a given bitrate between encoders/modes.
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14th July 2021, 17:16 | #12 | Link |
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Some more notes looking over your bitrate comparisons
x264's --nr and x265's --nr-inter are the same core algorithm underneath and use the same scale (x264 doesn't have a --nr-intra equivalent). Comparing 50 to 500 and 2000 is pretty different! If you are combining --tune grain with --nr-inter 2000, I'd absolutely expect to see the "frozen grain" you describe. The -nr-inter is essentially an adaptive deadzone for high frequency coefficients in predicted blocks. Which means it filters out small sharp details that vary from the pixels it predicts from. Using a --nr-intra at 25-50% the --nr-inter value can help stabilize things somewhat. I think the highest --nr-inter I've ever found useful was 750, and that was with some edge-case crazy content. I think 250 is about the highest I'd use for most 1080p encoding, grainy or otherwise. For a setting that can handle pretty grainy content well without losing too much speed or efficiency for normal content, I'd probably start with: --preset slower -F 2 --aq-mode 1 --aq-strength 0.5 --cutree 0 --ipratio 1.2 --pbratio 1.1 --qpstep 1 --sao 0 --psy-rd 2.0 --psy-rdoq 5.0 --recursion-skip 0 --nr-intra 100 --nr-inter 250 |
15th July 2021, 20:20 | #14 | Link | |
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Quote:
I lost some of the log files so only posted examples of those with logs. The x264 vs x265 at the same bitrate is a good example of 2-pass at the same bitrate, with reasonably comparable parameters (to a point). |
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16th July 2021, 12:11 | #15 | Link |
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I'm currently working on some new comparisons, but keeping the logs and doing the following tests (all at 2-pass/QSV at CRF but same bitrate):
▶ Nvidia NVENC H265 @ 5000kbps, P7, 10-bit ▶ x264 @ 5000kbps, veryslow, 8-bit ▶ x265 @ 5000kbps, slow, waggoner (settings suggested above), 10-bit [slow & veryslow is too slow to justify encoding, but doing so for testing] ▶ x265 @ 5000kbps, slow, grain, 10-bit [slow & veryslow is too slow to justify encoding, but doing so for testing] ▶ Intel QSV @ 5080kbps, ICQ, 'best quality', 10-bit [2-pass not available] They are completing now, but it's 31°C in my office so might need to wait until later to do them all (it's hot). These should provide a fairer comparison, and the logs should be useful as well. I'm thinking of posting three screenshots per encode and would post the four minute clip but clearly copyright is an issue. I could technically cut 30 seconds from each one but then I wouldn't know where to upload it. Last edited by tonemapped; 16th July 2021 at 12:18. |
16th July 2021, 13:23 | #16 | Link |
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Code:
I could technically cut 30 seconds from each one but then I wouldn't know where to upload it. zippyshare.com, below 500MB per file, stays up as long as there is a download now and then.
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"To bypass shortcuts and find suffering...is called QUALity" (Die toten Augen von Friedrichshain) "Data reduction ? Yep, Sir. We're that issue working on. Synce invntoin uf lingöage..." Last edited by Emulgator; 16th July 2021 at 13:45. |
16th July 2021, 14:38 | #17 | Link | |
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16th July 2021, 18:54 | #18 | Link | ||||||||||
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- Updated encodes with more screenshots.
- Due to forum limit of 20 images per post, and there being 35 images to show, this is post one out of two. - I hope the formatting is clear. I tried to make the layout as simple as possible. 1. ▶ source Quote:
2. ▶ nvenc-hevc-2pass-5000kbps-p7 Quote:
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3. ▶ x264-2pass-5000kbps-film-veryslow Quote:
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4. ▶ x264-2pass-5000kbps-grain-veryslow Quote:
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16th July 2021, 19:00 | #19 | Link | ||||||||||||
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5. ▶ x265-2pass-5000kbps-grain-slow
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6. ▶ x265-2pass-5000kbps-waggoner-slow (suggestions by Ben Waggoner) Quote:
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7. ▶ intel-hevc-qsv-qp30-icq Quote:
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8. ▶ x265-2pass-5000kbps-boulder-slower (suggestions by Boulder) Quote:
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Last edited by tonemapped; 17th July 2021 at 02:26. |
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16th July 2021, 20:02 | #20 | Link |
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Since your x265 don't have "regular" settings (--tune grain or --no-cutree are not very common), I cannot say anything about those QPs. They are rather high but that's probably because both encodes disable the cu-tree.
How about with something like this: --preset slower --deblock -1:-1 --no-sao --merange 58 --rskip 2 --rskip-edge-threshold 2 --rd-refine --max-merge 2 --ref 4 --bframes 10 --limit-refs 0 ?
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grain, noise, nvenc, qsv, x265 |
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