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Old 21st January 2015, 14:40   #41  |  Link
pandy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Music Fan View Post
I know, but that's not what I was talking about, I just said that Dsd could be converted in analog without PCM step between Dsd and analog.
Well... i can imagine processing in DSD but this is mathematically complex and very challenging task...

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Originally Posted by Music Fan View Post
I guess it's a joke
Aside the marketing reasons, Dsd has been invented to be closer to the original analog signal than PCM and to simplify the work of the DAC.
Here is what I understood from some readings about another aspect ;
PCM has a limitation that Dsd does not have : the number of samples by frequency. When you increase the sample frequency in PCM, you only gain more high frequencies (unuseful for most people), but you won't have more details or dynamic between 20 hz and 20 khz (but you can increase dynamic with 24 bit instead of 16 bit at the same sample frequency).
In Dsd, when you increase sample frequency (which is not possible on Sacd, fixed on Dsd64), you get more samples and details on all frequencies (on the whole bandwidth).
But this is off topic.
Sorry for OT

Nope it is no joke - 8 bit PCM, with 4 times oversampling (i.e. 176.4/192kHz) and correct noiseshaping will provide better objective audio parameters than DSD with half of required bitrate - this is scientific fact...

Not sure what are You talking but in CD Audio (44.1kHz 16bit) you may have 144dB dynamics with correct noise shaping in reference to human auditory system but frequency range is limited to approx 22kHz and some people complain on this.
That's why higher sampling rates systems was created even is majority of population don't perceive difference between 44.1 and 48kHz.
Difference between DSD and PCM is simple - DSD use one bit and very aggressive noiseshaping and 64 times oversampling, PCM use between 16 and 24 bits and between NOS - 4 time oversampling.

Noiseshaping is optional and in case of 192kHz 24b it can probably provide more than 250dB SNR from human auditory perspective.

Noiseshaping is key to understand DSD and PCM and it is applicable to both systems.

As i can imagine simple linear processing natively in DSD domain then anything more complex in unavoidable way need to be done in PCM domain and reality of DSD recording is that most of them are created from PCM sources.

Not sure what is more close to analog signal series of 1 and 0 or values in range +-32767 - however i can't imagine any natural sound produced as series (even fast repeated) of 0 and 1 (or rather -1, +1).

Absolute silence is coded in PCM as 0, there is no such thing as absolute silence in DSD and if there will be something like silence in DSD then it will look like 0101010101010101010101010101010101010101 or rather -1+1-1+1-1+1-1+1-1+1-1+1-1+1-1+1-1+1-1+1-1+1 tell me which one of methods is more close to analog sound.

Use SoX
Quote:
@sox --multi-threaded --buffer 131072 -S -D -V %1 %1-output-p16d.wav rate -v -s -I 44100.0 gain -n -3.0103 dither -f improved-e-weighted -p 16
if You doubt that noiseshaping is not applicable to CD...

Last edited by pandy; 21st January 2015 at 14:43.
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Old 21st January 2015, 14:42   #42  |  Link
pandy
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Mmmh ... that's your right, but I can't content myself with this, I need a technical explanation.
Unless you are able to hear 300kHz with level around -3 .. -6dBFS there is no reasonable technical explanation.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 12:26   #43  |  Link
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Noiseshaping is key to understand DSD and PCM and it is applicable to both systems.
That is the key issue, indeed.
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Old 15th June 2021, 20:42   #44  |  Link
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In the last couple of days I looked into SACD playback directly from the original disc(s) on PC and so far, I believe, it seem to be still not possible at all, right ?
There is a Youtube video where someone opens a disc but it must have been ripped and burned content.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUe244YF1Ig
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Old 16th June 2021, 11:41   #45  |  Link
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People interested in backing-up their SACD collections might find this topic helpful: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...-yes-its-true/

Although the topic is very long there are details of a few makes and models of SACD players to look out for
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Old 19th June 2021, 04:28   #46  |  Link
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People interested in backing-up their SACD collections might find this topic helpful: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...-yes-its-true/

Although the topic is very long there are details of a few makes and models of SACD players to look out for
I ripped all of mine with a used Sony BDP-5100 that I picked up from eBay in early 2020 for ~$33 and spent another ~$7 on a remote. It was fairly straight forward and now I have an ISO of each of my ~50 SACDs. It was worth the ~$40.
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