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Old 3rd December 2008, 05:14   #1  |  Link
paulspurrier
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HELP - Creating a Blu-ray Disk

I've been professionally authoring standard DVDs for years now, and I thought I was pretty good at this kind of stuff, but I'm finding the creation of a Blu-Ray disk incredibly complex.

And now I've hit a roadblock.

I used a Blu-ray profile in Megui to create an MP4 file.

It took a long while, but it's done, and it looks great.

I then needed to put it through the MUI Generator of Scenarist.

I selected the format as MPEG4-AVC

However, when trying to load the file, I could see that the options given only included files with extension .avc or .bsf whatever that is.

My file is a .mp4

However, by selecting "All files *.* " I was able to get the file to load in.

I left it to do its thing, but the next morning, I found an error message:

Invalid vui_parameters_present_flag value = 0


I have tried looking this up on google but get few results.

Is there a problem with the encoding?
Or is it because I was loading from MP4 container.

Hoping the latter, I used YAMB to create a .h264 stream
But of course MUI Generator doesn't see that extension either.
I renamed the .h264 file to .avc but it doesn't like that at all, simply saying "Error".

Then I thought that maybe I should re-encode using Megui, outputting in RAWAVC

I had a bright idea.

I had done a 3-pass encoding in Megui.
I could go to the queue, select the 3rd pass, load back into Megui, so I could ensure that all settings were the same, then redo only the third pass.

But the 'load' button doesn't work.


My questions are therefore:

1. Will MUI Generator load an MP4 file (provided it's created with blu-ray profile setting), or does it have to be a raw avc file?

2. What is the vui_parameters error, and is it a fault in my encoding?

3. If it's just a flag error, can I change the flag?

4. Can .h264 files simply be renamed to .avc , or is there another conversion process?

5. Why doesn't the 'load' button work in Megui queue page?


6. Is there a utility that will analyse the MP4 or AVC files, print out the header information, and allow me to compare that to a blu-ray standard to see whether it is truly compatible?

Thanks a lot.

Paul
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Old 3rd December 2008, 10:42   #2  |  Link
Willyfan
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Hi Paul,
I'm a Italian professional author for DVD and bluray, too.
We are using Scenarist (as you, I guess) for bluray. Actually, we encode our video in VC1, but I want to try to use h264 with x264.
As for your request, you need to encode a RAWAVC in order to import in to scenarist. But the big problem we have is a compliant problem: bluray need (for 4.1 level encoding) more than 4 slices for frame. Actually x264 DON'T support slice, so it is impossible to import a x264 coded file in Scenarist. I'm trying to apply a old patch and re-compile x264 to add the 4 sleces needed, but I'm not ready.
Regards

William
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Old 3rd December 2008, 10:55   #3  |  Link
toboda
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Hi Paulspurrier,

to make things short:

If you trying to get your disc replicated and if you want to use avc lvl 4.1 you'll have to use a different encoder than
x264.

x264 doen't support slicing, which is mandatory for bluray
avc content at lvl4.1 and there seem to be problems with the NAL.
I must stress one thing, though. The replication plant, I sent my test-encode to, reported 2 video stream errors.
The verifier did not rate these as "abort conditions". It's very
likely that although the file is not BR compliant it would work on most players (as do the encodes I burned to a disc).
But that's where you'll hit the final wall. "Should work" is
just not enough for a professional production.

ATM I'm evaluating MainConcept Encoder and Inlets Fathom.
Both give me problems and picture quality isn't as good as with
x264 (perhaps that is due to slicing enabled?)

To your questions:

1) Just select raw output in megui and you'll get a .264 file
that Scenerist will be all happy about
2) The problem will go away if you output to raw from megui.
I got the same errors when demuliplexing raw streams from
mp4 files and then feeding it to Scenerist
3) same as 2
4) No need to rename them. Scenerist is happy with .264
5) no idea

Greetz

@willyfan: sorry didn't noticed your reply. Everything's already there...
Could you let us know, how your progess is with the older version, that supports slicing?
Thanks alot

Last edited by toboda; 3rd December 2008 at 10:58.
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Old 3rd December 2008, 11:02   #4  |  Link
Golgot13
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Hi,

about BD preset on x264: see the Sagitaire's post (it need a specific version of x264
to have a compliant vbv).

about "Invalid vui_parameters_present_flag value = 0": if you are sure about your stream compliancy
you can use the nice program h264info.exe from Trahald (nice job) to correct all flag which permit to import
the stream on all authoring software from Sony BD SDK muxer (BluPrint, Scenarist BD, DVDit, Premiere...).

@Willyfan:
You use VC1 codec on BD: I surprise !!!
VC1 don't give better result than H264, and H264 professional encoder are cheap than VC1...

- PeP/CinevisionPSE, the best VC1 encoder, has only a advantage: Video Preprocess
(but you need to know how to use it).
- VC1 core encoder don't give better quality than H264 professional encoder (use on authoring studio).


Regards
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Old 3rd December 2008, 11:13   #5  |  Link
audyovydeo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulspurrier View Post
Invalid vui_parameters_present_flag value = 0

Maybe scenarist wanted to find any such parameters set in the stream (x264 --longhelp) ?


Code:
 Usability Info (Annex E):
The VUI settings are not used by the encoder but are merely suggestions to
the playback equipment. See doc/vui.txt for details. Use at your own risk.

      --overscan <string>     Specify crop overscan setting ["undef"]
                                  - undef, show, crop
      --videoformat <string>  Specify video format ["undef"]
                                  - component, pal, ntsc, secam, mac, undef
      --fullrange <string>    Specify full range samples setting ["off"]
                                  - off, on
      --colorprim <string>    Specify color primaries ["undef"]
                                  - undef, bt709, bt470m, bt470bg
                                    smpte170m, smpte240m, film
      --transfer <string>     Specify transfer characteristics ["undef"]
                                  - undef, bt709, bt470m, bt470bg, linear,
                                    log100, log316, smpte170m, smpte240m
      --colormatrix <string>  Specify color matrix setting ["undef"]
                                  - undef, bt709, fcc, bt470bg
                                    smpte170m, smpte240m, GBR, YCgCo
      --chromaloc <integer>   Specify chroma sample location (0 to 5) [0]
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Old 3rd December 2008, 11:20   #6  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toboda View Post
If you trying to get your disc replicated and if you want to use avc lvl 4.1 you'll have to use a different encoder than x264.
Or you can use the slicing patch on the mailing list. Personally, I'd prefer that to crippling my quality with a crappy encoder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toboda View Post
ATM I'm evaluating MainConcept Encoder and Inlets Fathom.
Both give me problems and picture quality isn't as good as with
x264 (perhaps that is due to slicing enabled?)
The penalty for slicing on such a large frame is small (<1%). Mainconcept just is not a very good encoder. If you need a software solution that supports slicing and isn't x264, you'd be better off with Ateme. It's still not that good though (their software core is rather old and far behind their current hardware).

Last edited by Dark Shikari; 3rd December 2008 at 12:00.
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Old 3rd December 2008, 11:21   #7  |  Link
Sagittaire
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http://skystrife.com/x264/x264.1046M.exe

Code:
@REM -----------------------------------------------------------
@REM
@REM Profil BluRay 1080p23.976 extra high quality
@REM
@REM -----------------------------------------------------------


@REM Source file name (suffit de mettre la source ici)
set E_SRC=HDDVD-ntsc.avs

@REM Set of quality (ici la qualité 1-50)
set E_BR=20.0

@REM Set of max bitrate (ici le bitrate max)
set MAX_BR=40000

@REM Set of Buffer (ici le buffer)
set BUF_BR=30000

@REM Set credit (frame de début du générique)
set CRE_FR=201560

@REM Set end credit (frame de fin du générique)
set END_FR=207442



@REM Profil

x264.exe --threads auto --thread-input --keyint 24 --min-keyint 1 --crf %E_BR% --vbv-maxrate %MAX_BR% --vbv-bufsize %BUF_BR% --mvrange 511 
--level 4.1 --bframe 2 --weightb --ref 3 --mixed-refs --direct auto --deblock -2:-2 --ipratio 1.10 --pbratio 1.10 --partitions "all" --8x8dct 
--me "umh" --subme 9 --trellis 2 --no-fast-pskip --no-dct-decimate --aud --nal-hrd --sar 1:1 --psy-rd 1.0:0.0 --aq-strength 0.50 --aq-mode 1 
--zone %CRE_FR%,%END_FR%,b=0.33 --progress --pass 1 --stats "stat.log" -o 1080p_Q1.264 %E_SRC%

pause
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1- Ateme AVC or x264
2- VP7 or RV10 only for anime
3- XviD, DivX or WMV9

Last edited by Sagittaire; 3rd December 2008 at 11:25.
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Old 3rd December 2008, 11:30   #8  |  Link
Willyfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgot13 View Post
Hi,
You use VC1 codec on BD: I surprise !!!
VC1 don't give better result than H264, and H264 professional encoder are cheap than VC1...
Regards
We start more than one yars ago with HDDVD and bluray authoring, using microsoft vc1 encoder. After the death of HDDVD we are written a our VC1 encoder using mainconcept sdk. The encoding is very good, not very different from mainconcept (and derivated like sonic cinevision and so on) H264. I think that x264 can be better, and I want to use this, but there is a lot of compliance problem. Evry help about this matter will be appreciated, actually I'm working with a patch for add slices support in x264.
William
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Old 3rd December 2008, 11:38   #9  |  Link
Willyfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittaire View Post
I'm sorry, is this the last regoular build, or is this a patched build? I'm working with a old patch in order to add slices, but I need to work on right sources. If someone know where is the last sources with last BR support, please let me know.

William
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Old 3rd December 2008, 12:04   #10  |  Link
Sagittaire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyfan View Post
I'm sorry, is this the last regoular build, or is this a patched build? I'm working with a old patch in order to add slices, but I need to work on right sources. If someone know where is the last sources with last BR support, please let me know.

William
It's patched build with HRD SEI. As far I know slice support are not necessary with scenarist or other authoring software. I don't use the last version of scenarist but this profil work with 4.xx version.


Quote:
We start more than one yars ago with HDDVD and bluray authoring, using microsoft vc1 encoder. After the death of HDDVD we are written a our VC1 encoder using mainconcept sdk. The encoding is very good, not very different from mainconcept (and derivated like sonic cinevision and so on) H264. I think that x264 can be better, and I want to use this, but there is a lot of compliance problem. Evry help about this matter will be appreciated, actually I'm working with a patch for add slices support in x264.
William
Why not use H264 SDK from mainconcept ... because VC1 SDK from mainconcept is not a really good codec. Anyway for BD50 even crap MPEG2 implementation will produce good quality. x264 will be a good choice only if you want BD25 with 140 min complex movie with vaste bonus choice.
__________________
Le Sagittaire ... ;-)

1- Ateme AVC or x264
2- VP7 or RV10 only for anime
3- XviD, DivX or WMV9

Last edited by Sagittaire; 3rd December 2008 at 12:18.
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Old 3rd December 2008, 12:21   #11  |  Link
Golgot13
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@toboda

x264 (patch version) work nicely on BD Title (on all BD player).
I make title available on european market, this title were test on BD verifier
(Sony and Eclipse software) without problem.

Today x264 give the best result today, it's little hard because it' CLI software.
For some people who have it: BAEVX1000, last Sony encoder (for Cruncher: made by two Japanese),
but it's too slow and need lot of CPU power so it can not be compare with x264.


Last, I see some file from H264 HD hardware encoder in developpment (realtime from video input!!).
It's look good, it's announced for this year (but no sure we're in december),
it will can encode the video in 2 differents H264 file (eg: for BD and iPod use).
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Old 3rd December 2008, 12:26   #12  |  Link
paulspurrier
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Thanks for the advice.

I am reconverting to RAWAVC.

I'm a bit confused about this concept of slicing.

MEGUI automatically updates to the latest builds of x264, and the one it has currently downloaded is 1046. It doesn't mention 1046M. Is that a different build?

Is the slicing patch addressed in the 1046 that MEGUI has already updated?

And if the patch is addressed, is it something I need to 'switch on' in MEGUI?

In other words, do I need to worry about it, or has it already been addressed?

Thanks a lot.

Paul
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Old 3rd December 2008, 12:34   #13  |  Link
Sagittaire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulspurrier View Post
Thanks for the advice.

I am reconverting to RAWAVC.

I'm a bit confused about this concept of slicing.

MEGUI automatically updates to the latest builds of x264, and the one it has currently downloaded is 1046. It doesn't mention 1046M. Is that a different build?

Is the slicing patch addressed in the 1046 that MEGUI has already updated?

And if the patch is addressed, is it something I need to 'switch on' in MEGUI?

In other words, do I need to worry about it, or has it already been addressed?

Thanks a lot.

Paul

MeGui profil are false for BD encoding: use my profil in bat file with HRD patched x264 build.
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1- Ateme AVC or x264
2- VP7 or RV10 only for anime
3- XviD, DivX or WMV9
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Old 3rd December 2008, 12:53   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittaire View Post
It's patched build with HRD SEI. As far I know slice support are not necessary with scenarist or other authoring software. I don't use the last version of scenarist but this profil work with 4.xx version.
I'm using the last Scenarist version: I tried MUI a x264 encoding, but I receive the error about slices, and the files is rejected. Anyway, if bluray specs want slices, we are a professional authoring facility, and we must to be closed to BD specs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittaire View Post
Why not use H264 SDK from mainconcept ... because VC1 SDK from mainconcept is not a really good codec. Anyway for BD50 even crap MPEG2 implementation will produce good quality. x264 will be a good choice only if you want BD25 with 140 min complex movie with vaste bonus choice.
We are using also H264 SDK from mainconcept. VC1 codec from mainconcept is not too bad, and it is very quick. I agree about mpeg2 with BD50, but our customer want use BD25 every time is possible: replication of BD 50 is VERY expensive. AND, we have also many production with complex movie and a lot of Bonus. Actually, we are author the bluray version of "Traffic" (147 min movie, with PCM audio and 50 mins of extras) and "the hurt locker", a 131 min movie with some extras, but the customer need a BD 25. Our facility is known for the quality of our products, so I'm serching for the best solution.
Many thanks to all

William
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Old 3rd December 2008, 13:02   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittaire View Post
MeGui profil are false for BD encoding: use my profil in bat file with HRD patched x264 build.
Where can I found the HRD patch? I want to compile a x264 version working with bluray and with slice support. Please help me.
William
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Old 3rd December 2008, 13:04   #16  |  Link
Sagittaire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyfan View Post
I'm using the last Scenarist version: I tried MUI a x264 encoding, but I receive the error about slices, and the files is rejected. Anyway, if bluray specs want slices, we are a professional authoring facility, and we must to be closed to BD specs.

William
MUI generator work perfectly here with my x264 stream.
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1- Ateme AVC or x264
2- VP7 or RV10 only for anime
3- XviD, DivX or WMV9
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Old 3rd December 2008, 13:06   #17  |  Link
paulspurrier
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Dear Le Sagittaire,

RE: your profile

Thank you very much.

Whilst obviously still keeping Blu-ray compatibility...


1. Can I change:
crf %E_BR%
to
bitrate %E_BR%
and input a target bitrate?

2. Can I get rid of the credits parameters, as the end credits are entirely over picture? In fact why is this parameter used? Does it reduce quality over the end credits?

3.
Do you have a 'best quality' version of this profile that is 2 pass? I understand that 2-pass can give better quality. Three-pass I understand has minimum effect on quality.

Best wishes,

Paul
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Old 3rd December 2008, 13:11   #18  |  Link
Sagittaire
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1) crf mode produce optimal quality in 1 pass mode. Anyway you can't know the final bitrate in this mode.

2) High quality for credit are useless (white on black screen). You can save bitrate for other movie part.

3) 1 pass quality mode produce the best possible quality.

Try with little trailer with this profil for compliancy test and I will post my optimal profil (insane mode) in multipass later.
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1- Ateme AVC or x264
2- VP7 or RV10 only for anime
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Old 3rd December 2008, 13:20   #19  |  Link
paulspurrier
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I'm encoding a file of 157137 frames at 24fps - 1080p
I will add six tracks of PCM audio.
And it needs to fit on a BD25.

I worked out that to included menus and a few extras, and being a little conservative, I should encode at a max bitrate of 35000 and an average bitrate of 21000.

That way, it will not exceed max bitrate for the video and audio streams, and the overall file will not be too large to fit on a BD25.

If I set to quality-based encoding, how can I control the size of the resulting file, and ensure that I will still fit it onto a BD25?

Thanks.

Paul
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Old 3rd December 2008, 13:29   #20  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittaire View Post
MUI generator work perfectly here with my x264 stream.
What version of Scenarist are you using? OR the patched x264 is also slices patched? I tried to encode a h264 stream with mainconcept SDK with 1 slices, and I receive the same compliance error from MUI. This afternoon I'll try one encoding with patched x264 and your parameters, I want to see what happen.
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