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View Poll Results: What produces richer audio quality (clarity, suppression, etc), FFDShow or AC3Filter?
AC3Filter 11 64.71%
FFDShow 6 35.29%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 8th October 2009, 02:41   #1  |  Link
Ditto666
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FFDShow vs. AC3Filter Audio Quality

Please answer only if you actually tested this with high quality surround speakers, using some sort of surround audio streams...
This is not a question of which you like better as a program or which you're used to.

The results would only make sense if one outweighed the other by a lot, like it would be if the poll was between 128kbps vs. 256kbps MP3s, as an example. Mixed results would only mean one of two things; people are either voting with a bias or, both create exactly the same quality...

Last edited by Ditto666; 8th October 2009 at 02:48.
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Old 8th October 2009, 02:53   #2  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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This poll doesn't even make sense. The only variation allowed between AC-3 decoders is the random distribution used for frequency coefficients with a bap value of zero and the floating point rounding during decoding.

None of these would affect how "rich" or "clear" the audio sounded.
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Old 8th October 2009, 02:58   #3  |  Link
Ditto666
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Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
This poll doesn't even make sense. The only variation allowed between AC-3 decoders is the random distribution used for frequency coefficients with a bap value of zero and the floating point rounding during decoding.

None of these would affect how "rich" or "clear" the audio sounded.
Lol, maybe. I was thinking that too. But the sound was so much more powerful coming from AC3Filter. Maybe I was imagining things. I'll have to compare when my mind is clear. Too much obsessing in one day...
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Old 8th October 2009, 03:36   #4  |  Link
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No.. I'm not crazy. Maybe you just don't know what difference actually exists. With all the settings exactly the same, AC3Filter definitely sounds better to me. I think this is a legitimate poll. Sometimes, you just gotta put all the technical stuff aside.
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Old 8th October 2009, 03:55   #5  |  Link
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Sometimes, you just gotta put all the technical stuff aside.
No. The "technical stuff" - ABX tests, etc. - is the only reliable measure of quality.
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Old 8th October 2009, 03:56   #6  |  Link
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ffdshow has two options to decode AC3: via liba52, and via libavcodec. Do they both sound "equally bad" when compared to the output from AC3Filter?
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Old 8th October 2009, 03:58   #7  |  Link
Ditto666
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Originally Posted by Midzuki View Post
ffdshow has two options to decode AC3: via liba52, and via libavcodec. Do they both sound "equally bad" when compared to the output from AC3Filter?
Well, I'm actually comparing DTS - REAL DTS... And FFDShow doesn;t sound bad. Just worse...
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Old 8th October 2009, 04:06   #8  |  Link
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Ooops --- I misread, and miswrote. Apologies.

Instead of "liba52", read "libdts".
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Old 8th October 2009, 04:09   #9  |  Link
Ditto666
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Ooops --- I misread, and miswrote. Apologies.

Instead of "liba52", read "libdts".
Well, anyway, funny thing is, I find it even worse when passing the audio through to the receiver... Some people found that puzzling. It sounds different but not in a good way I think.
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Old 8th October 2009, 07:18   #10  |  Link
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Well, I'm actually comparing DTS - REAL DTS... And FFDShow doesn;t sound bad. Just worse...
A sample please.
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Old 8th October 2009, 09:48   #11  |  Link
Ditto666
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A sample please.
http://www.filedropper.com/dtsdvd-a-...undayafternoon

EDIT: Just want to mention.. I've gone though more songs, listening with FFDShow. Then, I just decided to play the same thing with AC3Filter and my eyes finally opened. Everything is clearer and sharper. Whatever difference exists, it makes AC3Filter sound better for sure. I am convinced now.

Last edited by Ditto666; 9th October 2009 at 05:08.
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Old 11th October 2009, 16:06   #12  |  Link
leeperry
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yeah, libdts sounds terrible(hissy/distorted dialogs)..libavcodec is cool, too bad libavcodec decodes to 16int when libdts is 32float.

but because of that bug, AC3Filter cannot be used in ffdshow if you wanna make autoload profiles: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func...roup_id=173941

I personally like Sonic 4.2(at least they have an official DTS licence, it's no dodgy reverse engineering....but you can't completely disable DRC )
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Old 11th October 2009, 18:50   #13  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditto666 View Post
http://www.filedropper.com/dtsdvd-a-...undayafternoon

EDIT: Just want to mention.. I've gone though more songs, listening with FFDShow. Then, I just decided to play the same thing with AC3Filter and my eyes finally opened. Everything is clearer and sharper. Whatever difference exists, it makes AC3Filter sound better for sure. I am convinced now.
You need to ABX otherwise your test means nothing.
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Old 11th October 2009, 19:43   #14  |  Link
tetsuo55
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To do this test correctly:

Hook up your system, so you can record the output from the player.

Then record the stream for each decoder (3 in total).
Compare the 3 streams with a reference decoder (one that is guaranteed to be accurate)

The one that matches the reference decoder best is the most accurate.

I'm very interested in the results of such a test (theoretically libavcodec should win)
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Old 12th October 2009, 01:05   #15  |  Link
Ditto666
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Originally Posted by RunningSkittle View Post
You need to ABX otherwise your test means nothing.
What's ABX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post
To do this test correctly:

Hook up your system, so you can record the output from the player.

Then record the stream for each decoder (3 in total).
Compare the 3 streams with a reference decoder (one that is guaranteed to be accurate)

The one that matches the reference decoder best is the most accurate.

I'm very interested in the results of such a test (theoretically libavcodec should win)
AC3Filter uses libavcodec?

In regards to the test, I don't think I can do it >.<
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Old 12th October 2009, 13:08   #16  |  Link
leeperry
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as much as I agree that libdts sounds awful, libavcodec in ffdshow sound great..do you also fault it?

but libdts decodes in 32float, where libavcodec is only 16int...which is too bad considering DTS is said to be 18bit.
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Old 13th October 2009, 14:53   #17  |  Link
tebasuna51
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Sorry, but the AC3Filter v1.63b DTS decoder have a bug.

The output is amplified by 3 dB and the peaks are clipped.
I have all the controls to 0 or Off:
Gain
DRC
Auto Gain
Auto Matrix
Equalizer

The sample was generated by me and Dts Pro Encoder.
Decoded with ffdshow (without differences betwen libdts and libavcodec) and ArcSoft the volume level is correct.

One more time higher volume is considered by ones like more quality, but here is on the contrary.
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Old 13th October 2009, 15:50   #18  |  Link
Ditto666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
Sorry, but the AC3Filter v1.63b DTS decoder have a bug.

The output is amplified by 3 dB and the peaks are clipped.
I have all the controls to 0 or Off:
Gain
DRC
Auto Gain
Auto Matrix
Equalizer

The sample was generated by me and Dts Pro Encoder.
Decoded with ffdshow (without differences betwen libdts and libavcodec) and ArcSoft the volume level is correct.

One more time higher volume is considered by ones like more quality, but here is on the contrary.
How typical for someone here to go by technical numbers... :/ When it comes to music, that's just something that isn't done. That's unfortunate to hear though. Nevertheless, it doesn't change whatever it is that makes it sound better. Maybe I'm wrong though, dunno again... Sigh...

Two questions though, because maybe I need to retest a few things.. well, the old fashioned way. Does AC3Filter use libavcodec? And, when putting a number between BackLeft and SideLeft in the Matrix Mixer, for example, where BackLeft has a value of 1, does that number affect the Backleft in any way or does it leave it untouched and just adds to the side channel?
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Old 13th October 2009, 15:56   #19  |  Link
Inspector.Gadget
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Originally Posted by Ditto666 View Post
How typical for someone here to go by technical numbers... :/ When it comes to music, that's just something that isn't done. That's unfortunate to hear though. Nevertheless, it doesn't change whatever it is that makes it sound better. Maybe I'm wrong though, dunno again... Sigh...
"Technical numbers" are the only valid way one has to verify results. And you're flat wrong about music: Hydrogenaudio has rigorous rules about making evidence-based claims and generally insists on ABX testing. If you're looking for handwaving and unsupported claims, perhaps a forum that at bottom is essentially about mathematics isn't the right venue.
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Old 13th October 2009, 15:57   #20  |  Link
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yeah, libdts sounds terrible(hissy/distorted dialogs)..
did not notice this at all. I ll test tonight. I checked 16,24 and 32 bit in ffdshow as output because I noticed that float is not supported by my ATI HD4350. ffdshow outputs 32bit cause I can see that in the info of Reclock. How do I know if Reclock also OUTputs 32bit? IF reclock outputs 32bit, is this then 'downgraded' to 18bit cause this is the max of DTS?

Quote:
libavcodec is cool, too bad libavcodec decodes to 16int when libdts is 32float.
Why would someone need 32float? (what IS float btw?)

Quote:
I personally like Sonic 4.2(at least they have an official DTS licence, it's no dodgy reverse engineering....but you can't completely disable DRC 0
what is DRC? Is this a filter that can work together with ffdshow?
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