Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Video Encoding > MPEG-4 AVC / H.264

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 14th April 2014, 12:37   #1  |  Link
Dreamtime Visions Product
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 3
Choppy camera movement in Youtube videos

I am having a very frustrating problem without any clear cause or solution. Camera movement in my Youtube videos (pans/cranes) is choppy/jittery. However, the video in Premiere, exported at 59.97 (for downloadable copy) and 29.97 fps (for streaming), streamed through VLC from Youtube, downloaded off Youtube, uploaded to Vimeo is all fine and doesn't have the choppiness. Every time I upload test videos, I get 'We detected your video may be shaky. Would you like us to stabilize it?' (I say no as the 'fixed' version is horrific). To make it more confusing, only some viewers (roughly half, including me) find it choppy. Some have suggested it is a Flash/browser issue, but I really need something more specific and suggested fixes. I'd just forget about Youtube and upload to Vimeo, but I'm having audio desync issues there (another frustrating issue) and the audience would be more limited anyway.

Watch the following example on Youtube/full screen (not embedded, to me it seems less choppy when embedded).

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Ri-XAHTIQ&feature=youtu.be

Video and test details below:

VIDEO DETAILS:

1. Original Render @ 120FPS jpeg capture from video game, 1280x720, progressive, square pixels

2. Jpeg -> Avi conversion in Virtualdub at 120 FPS

3. Sequence settings on Premiere @ 59.97 FPS, 1280x720, progressive, square pixels, 48000khz audio, stereo

4. Export settings on Premiere @ 29.97 FPS, 1280x720, progressive, square pixels, max render quality, max depth, 48000khz audio, stereo

5. Avisynth script:

AVISource("J:\Final Render\29.97 fps\SWREP1.avi", audio=false).AssumeFPS(30000,1001)
#deinterlace
#crop
#resize
#denoise
ConvertToYV12(matrix="rec601")

6. x264/AAC encoding through Megui:

http://imgur.com/Mg7vSV5
http://imgur.com/YrERgbM
http://imgur.com/ZpzH5qb
http://imgur.com/iEA0Lzg
http://imgur.com/BehBhVj

TEST DETAILS:

I've run so many tests that I've lost count, all unsuccessful:

1. Tried different codecs (WMV, h.264 through Premiere Pro, x264/AAC)

2. Tried constant FPS (re-rendered footage at 30 fps, premiere settings 30 fps, final encode 30 fps)

3. Tried final encode at 30 fps not 29.97.

3. Encoded at constant quality, variable bitrates, constant bit rates, 2 pass, 3 pass, etc

4. Exported at 59.97 from Premiere and let Avisynth convert FPS to 29.97

5. Different VBV max/buffsize values

6. Different GOP min/max values (15/8, 30/15, 300/30, etc)

7. Different levels in x264.

8. Different megui (handbrake, Microsoft expression encoder)

And the list goes on, you get the idea.

I am really quite desperate for help at the moment. It's a 20 minute machinima and a lot of work went into it. I really don't want to release a choppy video, when as you know people generally won't download a beautiful high-quality, 59.97 fps video file at 800mb even when you request and provide a link.
Dreamtime Visions Product is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2014, 14:04   #2  |  Link
Guest
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 21,922
It's not choppy for me.
Guest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2014, 23:16   #3  |  Link
raffriff42
Retried Guesser
 
raffriff42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,375
I see a little "judder" ("choppy" might be too strong a word)

EDIT the judder on the downloaded video is much less severe, but still present, so let's look at your sources.

>1. Original Render @ 120FPS jpeg capture from video game, 1280x720, progressive, square pixels
1a. Please post a MediaInfo report on a typical capture file.
1b. If possible, please furnish a short sample.

>2. Jpeg -> Avi conversion in Virtualdub at 120 FPS
2a. For importing non-AVI files into VirtualDub, you should (IMHO) not use the default DirectShow input driver, but instead use the VirtualDub FFmpeg input driver or Avisynth+FFMS2.
2b. Are you doing frame rate conversion in VirtualDub? What settings are you using?
.... (hint: use "decimate by 2," not "Convert to...")
2c. Please post a MediaInfo report on a typical VirtualDub-generated file.

>3. Sequence settings on Premiere @ 59.97 FPS, 1280x720, progressive, square pixels, 48000khz audio, stereo
>4. Export settings on Premiere @ 29.97 FPS, 1280x720, progressive, square pixels, max render quality, max depth, 48000khz audio, stereo
4a. Please post a MediaInfo report on a typical Premiere-generated file.

>5. Avisynth script:
(looks OK)

>6. x264/AAC encoding through Megui
6a. Please post a MediaInfo report on a typical Megui-generated file.
6b. If possible, please furnish a short sample.

One suggestion: try uploading at 60 fps (or 59.94, but 60 is better), letting YouTube do the framerate conversion. Some people argue this is better.

Another thing; I don't know if those x264 settings (veryslow, 3-pass, 8000 kbps) would cause YouTube's videos to judder somehow, but in general I feel YouTube gives cleaner videos with high bitrate and low complexity sources - in other words, less aggressive compression. Try this:
* single pass
* preset "Medium" or faster
* constant quality mode, quality=18
* all else default

Re: "your camera seems shaky," the thought occurs to me: try adding a logo overlay that never moves; it might break their shake detection algorithm. You should have a channel logo anyway!

Last edited by raffriff42; 15th April 2014 at 00:56.
raffriff42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2014, 01:09   #4  |  Link
Dreamtime Visions Product
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 3
1. Mediainfo log of capture file

General
Complete name : J:\Star Wars Revelations Footage\Episode 1\Uncompressed Avis\Seq 3 Tatooine Street\Shot18a.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 602 MiB
Duration : 9s 375ms
Overall bit rate : 538 Mbps

Video
ID : 0
Format : Lagarith
Codec ID : LAGS
Duration : 9s 375ms
Bit rate : 538 Mbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 120.000 (24/30) fps
Minimum frame rate : 24 fps
Maximum frame rate : 30 fps
Color space : RGB
Bit depth : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 4.868
Stream size : 602 MiB (100%)

It's quite large to upload and would take some time, if the Mediainfo log doesn't give enough detail let me know and I will.

2. All I do is go into Virtualdub and import the first picture of the jpeg sequence. I go to frame rate and 'change frame rate to 120 fps' and compression 'Lagarith lossless codec', then save as avi.

3. Mediainfo report on Premiere file:

General
Complete name : J:\Final Render\29.97 fps\SWREP1.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile : OpenDML
File size : 116 GiB
Duration : 18mn 41s
Overall bit rate : 885 Mbps
Recorded date : 2014-04-12T15:42:36.00269+10:00
Writing application : Adobe Premiere Pro 5.0

Video
ID : 0
Format : RGBA
Codec ID : 0x00000000
Codec ID/Info : Basic Windows bitmap format. 1, 4 and 8 bpp versions are palettised. 16, 24 and 32bpp contain raw RGB samples
Duration : 18mn 41s
Bit rate : 884 Mbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Bit depth : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 32.000
Time code of first frame : 00;00;00;00 / 00;00;00;00
Time code source : Adobe tc_A / Adobe tc_O
Stream size : 115 GiB (100%)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 18mn 41s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 205 MiB (0%)
Alignment : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration : 966 ms (28.96 video frames)
Interleave, preload duration : 967 ms

6. Mediainfo log of this Youtube video (these are the settings from the first post and the settings I was going to use)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Ri-XAHTIQ

General
Complete name : J:\Youtube Tests\29.97 Uncom Normal Youtube\29.97UncomVideo-muxed.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 9.32 MiB
Duration : 9s 365ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 8 352 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-04-14 03:56:35
Tagged date : UTC 2014-04-14 03:56:35

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 5 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 9s 308ms
Bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 9 258 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.290
Stream size : 8.89 MiB (95%)
Writing library : x264 core 138 r2358 9e941d1
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:-1:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.15 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=32 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=-3 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=2 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=15 / keyint_min=8 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=15 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=8000 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date : UTC 2014-04-14 03:50:51
Tagged date : UTC 2014-04-14 03:56:35

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 9s 365ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 393 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 439 KiB (5%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-04-14 03:50:52
Tagged date : UTC 2014-04-14 03:56:35

Here is the video file on its own:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/s8u5agzp254o3uj/29.97UncomVideo-muxed.mp4?dl=1

7. Already did a test upload at 59.94, which was unsuccessful. It was even rendered through Premiere using h.264 instead of megui, but still no luck. Video test is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQw-Y2c7bs

8. Suggested settings didn't have any effect on judder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aPJ9f_LIs&feature=youtu.be

9. Do you mean just like an image watermark in the corner or a title, e.g. 'Dreamtime Visions Productions' that sits in the corner?

Also worth noting that when I add '&html5=True' to the end of the video, it plays completely smoothly in html5 player on Youtube.

Last edited by Dreamtime Visions Product; 15th April 2014 at 01:22.
Dreamtime Visions Product is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2014, 07:17   #5  |  Link
raffriff42
Retried Guesser
 
raffriff42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,375
I'm convinced now that there is nothing wrong with your videos. It looks like Flash Player is to blame.
Google agrees:
https://www.google.com/search?q=flash+player+judder
Good to know HTML5 is an improvement.
raffriff42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2014, 10:44   #6  |  Link
Dreamtime Visions Product
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by raffriff42 View Post
I'm convinced now that there is nothing wrong with your videos. It looks like Flash Player is to blame.
Google agrees:
https://www.google.com/search?q=flash+player+judder
Good to know HTML5 is an improvement.
We too have come to the same conclusion. We're offering LQ/HQ download options for users anyway as well as the Youtube stream.

Thanks for your help Raffriff, it's always encouraging to know that there are people who actually give a damn and try and solve video issues.
Dreamtime Visions Product is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2014, 04:17   #7  |  Link
ceth
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by raffriff42 View Post
I'm convinced now that there is nothing wrong with your videos. It looks like Flash Player is to blame.
Google agrees:
https://www.google.com/search?q=flash+player+judder
Good to know HTML5 is an improvement.
This is indeed due to flash player (crap).

A few monthes ago I was discussing with a gaming mate about how bad youtube video fluidity was, and that when downloading back the videos from youtube it was then played smooth by any video player (mpchc, vlc...).

He was curious (and as annoyed as me by the youtube choppyness) so he started deep testing with flash player, checking playback framerate, and comparing older versions of flash player.

The conclusion was older versions were far better, the choppyness just got worse and worse every new flash player version. He posted the result of his test on the adobe forum:
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1380351

Unfortunately as you can see Adobe just disregarded this report... (anyone surprised ?). And today fluidity of videos played though flash player is still terrible.

My mate also started another thread about this issue on reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/c...got_worse_and/

The only workaround so far is to use a browser plugin that will play the video with another player than flashplayer. The best ones being the FF VLC plugin and SVPtube.

Maybe some of the experts here could jump into the adobe thread and try to make things move, this would be nice (although I don't have any hope adobe would do anything seeing how many years they have left their flash player producing such a poor playback).
ceth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2014, 19:33   #8  |  Link
Emulgator
Big Bit Savings Now !
 
Emulgator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: close to the wall
Posts: 986
You wanna wake up afobe ?
Thousands have tried (me included), and in between what happens...

It's so much fun ! See here:
http://secfilings.nasdaq.com/edgar_c...l#FIS_BUSINESS
No time for work, I guess. Muuuuhahaaaaa. Brörk.
__________________
"To bypass shortcuts and find suffering...is called QUALity" (Die toten Augen von Friedrichshain)
"Data reduction ? Yep, Sir. We're working on that issue. Synce invntoin uf lingöage..."

Last edited by Emulgator; 29th October 2014 at 19:39.
Emulgator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2014, 20:04   #9  |  Link
ceth
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 34
Yeah hopefuly we get rid of that damn flash player one day.
ceth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2014, 23:28   #10  |  Link
foxyshadis
ангел смерти
 
foxyshadis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lost
Posts: 9,566
I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place; if I force Flash player, the video is choppy, but if I use HTML 5, the video often hangs up hard after a couple minutes of playing (even after refreshing the page). Firefox bugs, unfortunately.
foxyshadis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.